(July 30, 2015 at 10:19 am)Alex K Wrote: You still have to demonstrate that your mental and spiritual aspect are not entirely based on the material process, but are in fact separate. I don't think you can.

Quote:Sorry about the sentence structure.
The next time i born i will born in an English speaking country so the structure will be perfect.
Ok?    

If your plan is to improve your English skills via reincarnation, you're really doing it the hard way

When you drive a car you feel (we all feel) that there is no separation between you and the car.
You control the way the car goes so in a way the feeling of separation doesn't exist.
You feel that you are the car.
The same happen with your body.
You came to think that you are the body but the body is not you as the car is not you.
Most atheist came to the same conclusion but is a false conclusion.
It is only when you develop your consciousness that you can understand who is who. 

(July 30, 2015 at 10:28 am)Little Rik Wrote: When you drive a car you feel (we all feel) that there is no separation between you and the car.
You control the way the car goes so in a way the feeling of separation doesn't exist.
You feel that you are the car.

  Umm... I have never, ever, even once felt that I am the car.

(July 30, 2015 at 10:28 am)Little Rik Wrote:

(July 30, 2015 at 10:19 am)Alex K Wrote: You still have to demonstrate that your mental and spiritual aspect are not entirely based on the material process, but are in fact separate. I don't think you can.


If your plan is to improve your English skills via reincarnation, you're really doing it the hard way

When you drive a car you feel (we all feel) that there is no separation between you and the car.
You control the way the car goes so in a way the feeling of separation doesn't exist.
You feel that you are the car.
The same happen with your body.
You came to think that you are the body but the body is not you as the car is not you.
Most atheist came to the same conclusion but is a false conclusion.
It is only when you develop your consciousness that you can understand who is who. 

The brain actively constructs a perception of the body boundary. Taking drugs, e.g. LSD, will mess with this protocol, and you will feel your body bleed into the surroundings. There is the opposite effect where you will perceive body parts as not belonging to you e.g. due to some disruption of brain function.

All this says absolutely nothing about an actual separate mental or spiritual component of existence. From studies of split brain patients, it has become amply clear that the unity of the self is basically an illusion which the brain actively keeps up in order for us to be able to function. Your intuitions from observation of your self are not reliable.

(July 30, 2015 at 10:07 am)lkingpinl Wrote: Ok I don't even know where to begin on responding to this....dust has consciousness??  Redbeard, let's just leave him a cookie and walk away....

It is very funny but it is me that laugh. 
Atheism say that the consciousness is a product of the brain
but the brain is made of matter.
So according to the atheist logic matter can deliver consciousness.
The dust is matter and the brain is also matter.
Are you racist that believe that some matter can deliver consciousness while other matter can not?
It is just hilarious how you go around laughing at your own stupidity. 

(July 30, 2015 at 10:28 am)Little Rik Wrote:

(July 30, 2015 at 10:19 am)Alex K Wrote: You still have to demonstrate that your mental and spiritual aspect are not entirely based on the material process, but are in fact separate. I don't think you can.


If your plan is to improve your English skills via reincarnation, you're really doing it the hard way

When you drive a car you feel (we all feel) that there is no separation between you and the car.
You control the way the car goes so in a way the feeling of separation doesn't exist.
You feel that you are the car.
The same happen with your body.
You came to think that you are the body but the body is not you as the car is not you.
Most atheist came to the same conclusion but is a false conclusion.
It is only when you develop your consciousness that you can understand who is who. 

Rik would you identify as a Pantheist?

(July 30, 2015 at 10:36 am)Little Rik Wrote:

(July 30, 2015 at 10:07 am)lkingpinl Wrote: Ok I don't even know where to begin on responding to this....dust has consciousness??  Redbeard, let's just leave him a cookie and walk away....

It is very funny but it is me that laugh. 
Atheism say that the consciousness is a product of the brain
but the brain is made of matter.
So according to the atheist logic matter can deliver consciousness.
The dust is matter and the brain is also matter.

And ordinary logic, if you'd care to apply it for once, will tell you that from

1. consciousness is from matter

it does not follow that

2. all matter creates consciousness

That's literally the example Aristotle gives to demonstrate logical fallacy, slightly reworded.

(July 30, 2015 at 10:36 am)Little Rik Wrote:

(July 30, 2015 at 10:07 am)lkingpinl Wrote: Ok I don't even know where to begin on responding to this....dust has consciousness??  Redbeard, let's just leave him a cookie and walk away....

It is very funny but it is me that laugh. 
Atheism say that the consciousness is a product of the brain
but the brain is made of matter.
So according to the atheist logic matter can deliver consciousness.
The dust is matter and the brain is also matter.
Are you racist that believe that some matter can deliver consciousness while other matter can not?
It is just hilarious how you go around laughing at your own stupidity. 

I am not an atheist but I also don't know any atheists that say consciousness is created by the brain.  Quite often I see them more saying that consciousness is not possible without a brain (which is not the same thing as saying a brain creates it), but we cannot aptly describe what consciousness IS.  It may be more accurate to describe the brain as a receiver of consciousness not a creator of consciousness.

(July 30, 2015 at 10:49 am)lkingpinl Wrote:

(July 30, 2015 at 10:36 am)Little Rik Wrote: It is very funny but it is me that laugh. 
Atheism say that the consciousness is a product of the brain
but the brain is made of matter.
So according to the atheist logic matter can deliver consciousness.
The dust is matter and the brain is also matter.
Are you racist that believe that some matter can deliver consciousness while other matter can not?
It is just hilarious how you go around laughing at your own stupidity. 

I am not an atheist but I also don't know any atheists that say consciousness is created by the brain.  Quite often I see them more saying that consciousness is not possible without a brain (which is not the same thing as saying a brain creates it), but we cannot aptly describe what consciousness IS.  It may be more accurate to describe the brain as a receiver of consciousness not a creator of consciousness.

I don't know many atheists who would say that. I personally would tentatively say that consciousness is how the brain experiences itself during its operation, so in a sense it is created by the brain, but it is not some transcendental substance.

(July 30, 2015 at 10:34 am)Alex K Wrote:

(July 30, 2015 at 10:28 am)Little Rik Wrote: When you drive a car you feel (we all feel) that there is no separation between you and the car.
You control the way the car goes so in a way the feeling of separation doesn't exist.
You feel that you are the car.
The same happen with your body.
You came to think that you are the body but the body is not you as the car is not you.
Most atheist came to the same conclusion but is a false conclusion.
It is only when you develop your consciousness that you can understand who is who. 

The brain actively constructs a perception of the body boundary. Taking drugs, e.g. LSD, will mess with this protocol, and you will feel your body bleed into the surroundings. There is the opposite effect where you will perceive body parts as not belonging to you e.g. due to some disruption of brain function.

All this says absolutely nothing about an actual separate  mental or spiritual component of existence. From studies of split brain patients, it has become amply clear that the unity of the self is basically an illusion which the brain actively keeps up in order for us to be able to function. Your intuitions from observation of your self are not reliable.

When one of the 3 horses doesn't do his job for some reason the other 2 horses are unable to proceed straight
even if they are in perfect condition.
Just imagine having a cart in which 2 horses try to pull the cart and the other horse for some reason is not moving.
It is next to impossible.
In this case there is chaos and you can not really understand what is going on.
Medical science can study and study and study but until it will take in consideration all 3 aspect of our self there is no way it will be able to understand how the system works.
Physical science as his name say is purely physical in nature and therefore study only the physical aspect of our self.   
When physical science will finally open up to our spiritual aspect then the chances that will understand how the whole system works will be possible.

(July 30, 2015 at 11:00 am)Little Rik Wrote:

(July 30, 2015 at 10:34 am)Alex K Wrote: The brain actively constructs a perception of the body boundary. Taking drugs, e.g. LSD, will mess with this protocol, and you will feel your body bleed into the surroundings. There is the opposite effect where you will perceive body parts as not belonging to you e.g. due to some disruption of brain function.

All this says absolutely nothing about an actual separate  mental or spiritual component of existence. From studies of split brain patients, it has become amply clear that the unity of the self is basically an illusion which the brain actively keeps up in order for us to be able to function. Your intuitions from observation of your self are not reliable.

When one of the 3 horses doesn't do his job for some reason the other 2 horses are unable to proceed straight
even if they are in perfect condition.
Just imagine having a cart in which 2 horses try to pull the cart and the other horse for some reason is not moving.
It is next to impossible.
In this case there is chaos and you can not really understand what is going on.
Medical science can study and study and study but until it will take in consideration all 3 aspect of our self there is no way it will be able to understand how the system works.
Physical science as his name say is purely physical in nature and therefore study only the physical aspect of our self.   
When physical science will finally open up to our spiritual aspect then the chances that will understand how the whole system works will be possible.

That's just wishful thinking on your part. You still have to demonstrate that there are different aspects which are truly separate from the material one. The most parsimonious hypothesis is that they don't exist.