(August 6, 2015 at 3:52 am)Alex K Wrote: I don't really think, at the risk of sounding like an imperialist pig, that the solution to global overpopulation is stopping to procreate in northern europe, it really isn't. I'm not saying that anyone should stop procreating, it just needs to reach sustainable levels everywhere.

I'm on the same lines. Especially the poorest countries and regions of the world have the highest birth rates. People need to be educated on contraception. Not in order to have no kids, but to bring the birthrate down just a little bit. And no, I don't think, the Chinese punitive one child model is a good approach.

The bible is pro life? God kills or commands the death of around 2.5 million people in the bible. It could be less pro life if it tried.

Abortion in the bible shown below. Read many more here.

Quote:The priest shall say unto the woman, The LORD make thee a curse and an oath among thy people, when the LORD doth make thy thigh to rot, and thy belly to swell. And this water that causeth the curse shall go into thy bowels, to make thy belly to swell, and thy thigh to rot: And the woman shall say, Amen, amen. ...
And when he hath made her to drink the water, then it shall come to pass, that, if she be defiled, and have done trespass against her husband, that the water that causeth the curse shall enter into her, and become bitter, and her belly shall swell, and her thigh shall rot: and the woman shall be a curse among her people. And if the woman be not defiled, but be clean; then she shall be free, and shall conceive seed. -- Numbers 5:21-21, 27-28

(August 6, 2015 at 6:53 am)massey904 Wrote:

(August 5, 2015 at 8:52 pm)Jenny A Wrote: First of all, I'm sure more atheists are in favor of allowing abortions than Christians.  That's not the same as celebrating them.  And there are pro choice Christians.

But, and I think it's the big thing that you are missing is that those of us who are pro choice generally don't think that fetuses are children.  Neither does the Bible.  It's one of the few cases where I agree with the Bible.  Fetuses aren't children.

I like children.  Can't say I really like babies, though I loved mine.  But I don't like all adults generally either.  I do find injuring or neglecting babies or children reprehensible.   I find injuring able adults reprehensible and injuring or neglecting disabled adults reprehensible.  Ending fetuses not so much.  Why?  Because they are not people yet.

Should a fetus have a chance to live? Where in the bible does I support abortion? The bible is 100% pro life.

Bwha ha ha. I'm an atheist with a bible and I'm not afraid to use it. God apparently says that abortion is hunky dory if the woman cheats

Numbers chapter 5

Quote:16 “‘The priest shall bring her and have her stand before the Lord. 17 Then he shall take some holy water in a clay jar and put some dust from the tabernacle floor into the water. 18 After the priest has had the woman stand before the Lord, he shall loosen her hair and place in her hands the reminder-offering, the grain offering for jealousy, while he himself holds the bitter water that brings a curse. 19 Then the priest shall put the woman under oath and say to her, “If no other man has had sexual relations with you and you have not gone astray and become impure while married to your husband, may this bitter water that brings a curse not harm you. 20 But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband”— 21 here the priest is to put the woman under this curse—“may the Lord cause you to become a curse[b] among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell. 22 May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.”

“‘Then the woman is to say, “Amen. So be it.”

It is okay for a prophet to ask god to give enemies miscarriages

Quote:Hosea 9:11-14English Standard Version (ESV)

11 Ephraim's glory shall fly away like a bird—
   no birth, no pregnancy, no conception!
12 Even if they bring up children,
   I will bereave them till none is left.
Woe to them
   when I depart from them!
13 Ephraim, as I have seen, was like a young palm[a] planted in a meadow;
   but Ephraim must lead his children out to slaughter.
14 [b]Give them, O Lord—
   what will you give?
Give them a miscarrying womb
   and dry breasts.[/b]

These verses implies that it would be better if some people had not been born

Psalm 58:3-8New International Version (NIV)

Quote:3 Even from birth the wicked go astray;
   from the womb they are wayward, spreading lies.
4 Their venom is like the venom of a snake,
   like that of a cobra that has stopped its ears,
5 that will not heed the tune of the charmer,
   however skillful the enchanter may be.
6 Break the teeth in their mouths, O God;
   Lord, tear out the fangs of those lions!
7 Let them vanish like water that flows away;
   when they draw the bow, let their arrows fall short.
8 May they be like a slug that melts away as it moves along,
   like a stillborn child that never sees the sun.

There are numerous passages about dashing babies heads against the rocks

Psalm 137:9

Quote:O daughter of Babylon, you devastated one, How blessed will be the one who repays you With the recompense with which you have repaid us. 9How blessed will be the one who seizes and dashes your little ones Against the rock.

1 Samuel 15:2,3

Quote:2 This is what the LORD Almighty says: 'I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt.3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy [a] everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.

Hosea 13:16

Quote:16 The people of Samaria must bear their guilt,
      because they have rebelled against their God.
      They will fall by the sword;
     their little ones will be dashed to the ground,
      their pregnant women ripped open."

Anyone who has had any amount of experience in the matter knows that God, if he exists, is the biggest abortionist of them all, even late-term, and is definitely not pro-life himself.

Because nothing says pro life like sending bears to maul a large group of kids for making fun of a bald guy

(August 6, 2015 at 7:00 am)robvalue Wrote: The bible is pro life? God kills or commands the death of around 2.5 million people in the bible. It could be less pro life if it tried.

Abortion in the bible shown below. Read many more here.

Quote:The priest shall say unto the woman, The LORD make thee a curse and an oath among thy people, when the LORD doth make thy thigh to rot, and thy belly to swell. And this water that causeth the curse shall go into thy bowels, to make thy belly to swell, and thy thigh to rot: And the woman shall say, Amen, amen. ...
And when he hath made her to drink the water, then it shall come to pass, that, if she be defiled, and have done trespass against her husband, that the water that causeth the curse shall enter into her, and become bitter, and her belly shall swell, and her thigh shall rot: and the woman shall be a curse among her people. And if the woman be not defiled, but be clean; then she shall be free, and shall conceive seed. -- Numbers 5:21-21, 27-28

How do antichoicers read the verses in Numbers and not realize that it describes an abortion? I have had some Christians tell me that all the murder in the Old Testament or that is supposed to occur in the future is not evil because god committed it. So, maybe they look at the verses in Numbers the same way. An abortion is not evil if god's priests give a adulterous whore the drink that causes her to miscarry.

(August 6, 2015 at 7:21 am)Neimenovic Wrote: Because nothing says pro life like sending bears to maul a large group of kids for making fun of a bald guy

Once they are born it's ok to kill them, for they have probably sinned... The important thing is that it's not abortion!

(August 6, 2015 at 7:02 am)Nope Wrote:

(August 6, 2015 at 6:53 am)massey904 Wrote: Should a fetus have a chance to live? Where in the bible does I support abortion? The bible is 100% pro life.

Bwha ha ha. I'm an atheist with a bible and I'm not afraid to use it. God apparently says that abortion is hunky dory if the woman cheats

Numbers chapter 5

Quote:16 “‘The priest shall bring her and have her stand before the Lord. 17 Then he shall take some holy water in a clay jar and put some dust from the tabernacle floor into the water. 18 After the priest has had the woman stand before the Lord, he shall loosen her hair and place in her hands the reminder-offering, the grain offering for jealousy, while he himself holds the bitter water that brings a curse. 19 Then the priest shall put the woman under oath and say to her, “If no other man has had sexual relations with you and you have not gone astray and become impure while married to your husband, may this bitter water that brings a curse not harm you. 20 But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband”— 21 here the priest is to put the woman under this curse—“may the Lord cause you to become a curse[b] among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell. 22 May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.”

“‘Then the woman is to say, “Amen. So be it.”

You're or your source is adding to the Scriptures (See revelation 22 18-19) numbers 6 doesn't suggest an abortion in any kind of way, will the dishonesty of atheism ever end?

---

(August 6, 2015 at 7:21 am)Neimenovic Wrote: Because nothing says pro life like sending bears to maul a large group of kids for making fun of a bald guy

Do Biblical Scriptures matter to nonbelievers.

(August 6, 2015 at 7:15 am)Nope Wrote: It is okay for a prophet to ask god to give enemies miscarriages

Quote:Hosea 9:11-14English Standard Version (ESV)

11 Ephraim's glory shall fly away like a bird—
   no birth, no pregnancy, no conception!
12 Even if they bring up children,
   I will bereave them till none is left.
Woe to them
   when I depart from them!
13 Ephraim, as I have seen, was like a young palm[a] planted in a meadow;
   but Ephraim must lead his children out to slaughter.
14 [b]Give them, O Lord—
   what will you give?
Give them a miscarrying womb
   and dry breasts.[/b]

These verses implies that it would be better if some people had not been born

Psalm 58:3-8New International Version (NIV)

Quote:3 Even from birth the wicked go astray;
   from the womb they are wayward, spreading lies.
4 Their venom is like the venom of a snake,
   like that of a cobra that has stopped its ears,
5 that will not heed the tune of the charmer,
   however skillful the enchanter may be.
6 Break the teeth in their mouths, O God;
   Lord, tear out the fangs of those lions!
7 Let them vanish like water that flows away;
   when they draw the bow, let their arrows fall short.
8 May they be like a slug that melts away as it moves along,
   like a stillborn child that never sees the sun.

There are numerous passages about dashing babies heads against the rocks

Psalm 137:9

Quote:O daughter of Babylon, you devastated one, How blessed will be the one who repays you With the recompense with which you have repaid us. 9How blessed will be the one who seizes and dashes your little ones Against the rock.

1 Samuel 15:2,3

Quote:2 This is what the LORD Almighty says: 'I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt.3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy [a] everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.

Hosea 13:16

Quote:16 The people of Samaria must bear their guilt,
      because they have rebelled against their God.
      They will fall by the sword;
     their little ones will be dashed to the ground,
      their pregnant women ripped open."

(August 6, 2015 at 8:02 am)massey904 Wrote: You're or your source is adding to the Scriptures (See revelation 22 18-19) numbers 6 doesn't suggest an abortion in any kind of way, will the dishonesty of atheism ever end?

I don't know, will your sentences?