Posts: 176
Threads: 1
Joined: August 14, 2011
Reputation:
6
RE: christian looking to understand athiests
August 18, 2015 at 12:02 pm
(August 18, 2015 at 11:44 am)msid Wrote: (August 18, 2015 at 11:36 am)robvalue Wrote: You didn't answer my question about prayer. What does God do to make changes? Does he alter other people's free will? Or what does he do?
sorry im trying to reply to all of these,
God will never change anyones free will but he can change circumstances and things through prayer.
for instance our family needed a car because our old one broke down and we prayed for weeks and a friend of my parents was told by her eye doctor (about the same time we were praying) that her eyesight was too bad to drive, she had known that it was bad for a while but she diddnt have any need to drive other then groceries and church which she had plans worked out for. we got the car for a very low price and it is very nice and hasnt had any problems
that is one expample where God changed circumstances with prayer
Checkmate robvalue!
Did you see the car before you paid for it?
So your god answered your prayers by degrading someone else's eyesight to the point where they were no longer allowed to drive, thereby compelling her to sell off her car at discounted price?
Did nobody think to pray for this woman's eyesight to improve?
Sporadic poster
Posts: 20
Threads: 1
Joined: August 18, 2015
Reputation:
0
RE: christian looking to understand athiests
August 18, 2015 at 12:02 pm
(August 18, 2015 at 12:00 pm)Crossless1 Wrote: (August 18, 2015 at 11:55 am)msid Wrote: there are many different reasons why people die and Jesus isnt going to save every person who is prayed for. death happens, its the result of the fall of man.
I have news for you. Death was happening long before the fictional events in your imaginary Eden.
there really is no discussion here if you are just going to shoot down everything i say.
Posts: 13051
Threads: 66
Joined: February 7, 2011
Reputation:
92
RE: christian looking to understand athiests
August 18, 2015 at 12:04 pm
(August 18, 2015 at 10:28 am)msid Wrote: no because God created us with a free will and unless we ask him he cant change things that happen in our lives or our choices
What evidence do you have that your will is free?
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
Posts: 7392
Threads: 53
Joined: January 15, 2015
Reputation:
88
RE: christian looking to understand athiests
August 18, 2015 at 12:04 pm
(August 18, 2015 at 11:27 am)msid Wrote: (August 18, 2015 at 11:20 am)I_am_not_mafia Wrote: What is free will? its when you decide everything you want to do and make decisions in your life. God cant force you to do anything because you have free will. Eve had free will in the garden of eden and she could either eat or not eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. with her free will she decided to eat the fruit
When prisoners are tortured to the point where they confess to crimes that carry the death sentence, are they confessing using their free will?
Is your choice of action as free when you are starving hungry compared to when you have no particular urges to satisfy?
Posts: 20
Threads: 1
Joined: August 18, 2015
Reputation:
0
RE: christian looking to understand athiests
August 18, 2015 at 12:06 pm
(August 18, 2015 at 12:02 pm)Javaman Wrote: (August 18, 2015 at 11:44 am)msid Wrote: sorry im trying to reply to all of these,
God will never change anyones free will but he can change circumstances and things through prayer.
for instance our family needed a car because our old one broke down and we prayed for weeks and a friend of my parents was told by her eye doctor (about the same time we were praying) that her eyesight was too bad to drive, she had known that it was bad for a while but she diddnt have any need to drive other then groceries and church which she had plans worked out for. we got the car for a very low price and it is very nice and hasnt had any problems
that is one expample where God changed circumstances with prayer
Checkmate robvalue!
Did you see the car before you paid for it?
So your god answered your prayers by degrading someone else's eyesight to the point where they were no longer allowed to drive, thereby compelling her to sell off her car at discounted price?
Did nobody think to pray for this woman's eyesight to improve?
he did not degrade a womans eyesight she was very old and frankly there were other reasons why she shouldnt drive. dont blame God for natural physical aging. if he healed every single thing that was uncomfortable or inconvienent in anyones life he really would just turn into an automatic wish machine. i believe she is also selling her house soon to move in with family so she wont need the car
Posts: 7568
Threads: 20
Joined: July 26, 2013
Reputation:
54
RE: christian looking to understand athiests
August 18, 2015 at 12:07 pm
(August 18, 2015 at 12:02 pm)msid Wrote: (August 18, 2015 at 12:00 pm)Crossless1 Wrote: I have news for you. Death was happening long before the fictional events in your imaginary Eden.
there really is no discussion here if you are just going to shoot down everything i say.
You do realize that this is a place where, among other things, ideas and beliefs are debated, derided, and (when necessary) ridiculed, right? Nonsense gets called out here.
Posts: 9176
Threads: 76
Joined: November 21, 2013
Reputation:
40
RE: christian looking to understand athiests
August 18, 2015 at 12:12 pm
You'd think he would make exceptions when his followers ask for something. There's even a verse in the bible that says as and you shall receive, for what parent would give a child a stone when he asks for bread? If praying isn't consistent, there's no reason to pray. If following someone doesn't give you results, there's no reason to follow someone.
Posts: 20
Threads: 1
Joined: August 18, 2015
Reputation:
0
RE: christian looking to understand athiests
August 18, 2015 at 12:13 pm
(August 18, 2015 at 12:04 pm)I_am_not_mafia Wrote: (August 18, 2015 at 11:27 am)msid Wrote: its when you decide everything you want to do and make decisions in your life. God cant force you to do anything because you have free will. Eve had free will in the garden of eden and she could either eat or not eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. with her free will she decided to eat the fruit
When prisoners are tortured to the point where they confess to crimes that carry the death sentence, are they confessing using their free will?
Is your choice of action as free when you are starving hungry compared to when you have no particular urges to satisfy?
yes they are using their free will. life is not fair and assuming otherwise just isnt true. if someone is tortured they are tortured because someone else used their free will to decide to torture another person.
Posts: 25314
Threads: 239
Joined: August 26, 2010
Reputation:
156
RE: christian looking to understand athiests
August 18, 2015 at 12:16 pm
(August 18, 2015 at 11:52 am)Minimalist Wrote: (August 18, 2015 at 11:02 am)Stimbo Wrote: Great. Why not show us a bit of this evidence? Maybe you'll come up with something we've not seen before.
Unlikely, Stim.
Oh, undoubtedly. I'm just doing the Columbo bit.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
Posts: 20
Threads: 1
Joined: August 18, 2015
Reputation:
0
RE: christian looking to understand athiests
August 18, 2015 at 12:18 pm
(August 18, 2015 at 12:04 pm)Faith No More Wrote: (August 18, 2015 at 10:28 am)msid Wrote: no because God created us with a free will and unless we ask him he cant change things that happen in our lives or our choices
What evidence do you have that your will is free?
if i decide to steal a car thats my decision. if i decide to give money to a charity that is my decision. if i decide to kill myself that is my decision.
if you are suggesting that these decisions are just an illusion and we are all being controlled and decieved i think that is a whole other subject
|
