There is no evidence to support to judo christian god like there is no evidence for the goddess jupiter, thor, loki, kraken, big foot etc.
1. New Testament stories don't claim to be first hand accounts.
2. The gospel the only account of jesus supposed existence contradict one another.
3. No first century evidence that support yeshua
I could keep going on but jesus never existed ever. I said it before ill say it again pontious pilate would have kept a record of someone
named jesus and he would have been in it. Considering jesus was never in said records well put two and two together you will finally learn
hey religion is a lie made up by bronze age goat herders and men looking for a way to con people.

(August 25, 2015 at 8:26 am)abaris Wrote:

(August 25, 2015 at 8:16 am)Randy Carson Wrote: Who bothers to write a contemporaneous biography about someone who hasn't achieved anything yet?

One question, giving you one concrete example: Do you consider the vita Karoli as a 100 percent accurate account of the life of Charles Lemagne by todays standards?

There are of course many such accounts about different persons before and after. I only picked one of the more popular ones. But they all fall into the same category. Biographies. Same as the gospels.

I'm unfamiliar with the work, so I cannot comment.

Right, Randy, you're not the picky choosy guy, are you? Ehrman is a world class expert in your own words, yet you only give us what coincides with you opinion. I wonder why that is?

He also wrote the book forged and I quote.

Quote: There were a lot of people in the ancient world who thought that lying could serve a greater good

Which is an accurate description of the work ethics of the time and an accepted truth among historians.

Ehrman again:

Quote:Thus Christians aiming to authorize views they wanted others to accept wrote in the name of the Apostles, fabricating, falsifying and forging documents .... No one would take the Gospel of Jehoshaphat seriously. If you wanted someone to read it, you called yourself Peter. Or Thomas. Or James. In other words, you lied about who you really were

These are the main points of Ehrman's book "Forged": At least 11 of the 27 New Testament books are forgeries. The New Testament books attributed to Jesus’ disciples could not have been written by them because they were illiterate. Many of the New Testament’s forgeries were manufactured by early Christian leaders trying to settle theological feuds.

And these claim actually are in accordance with what the scientific community knows about the time and the work ethics of authors in general.

(August 25, 2015 at 8:52 am)Randy Carson Wrote: I'm unfamiliar with the work, so I cannot comment.

Which is part of your evidence problem. You have no base for comparison.

(August 25, 2015 at 8:55 am)abaris Wrote: Right, Randy, you're not the picky choosy guy, are you? Ehrman is a world class expert in your own words, yet you only give us what coincides with you opinion. I wonder why that is?

He also wrote the book forged and I quote.

Quote: There were a lot of people in the ancient world who thought that lying could serve a greater good

Which is an accurate description of the work ethics of the time and an accepted truth among historians.

Ehrman again:

Quote:Thus Christians aiming to authorize views they wanted others to accept wrote in the name of the Apostles, fabricating, falsifying and forging documents .... No one would take the Gospel of Jehoshaphat seriously. If you wanted someone to read it, you called yourself Peter. Or Thomas. Or James. In other words, you lied about who you really were

These are the main points of Ehrman's book "Forged": At least 11 of the 27 New Testament books are forgeries. The New Testament books attributed to Jesus’ disciples could not have been written by them because they were illiterate. Many of the New Testament’s forgeries were manufactured by early Christian leaders trying to settle theological feuds.

And these claim actually are in accordance with what the scientific community knows about the time and the work ethics of authors in general.

I am well aware of the fact that Ehrman is an atheist, and we can start another thread to discuss these issues if you think it is important to do so.

However, THIS thread is about the evidence that we do have, and Ehrman recognizes that the gospels provide far more support for the historical Jesus than some members can stomach.

Do you?

(August 25, 2015 at 9:15 am)Randy Carson Wrote: abaris expects me to be knowledgable about Charles Lemagne; you want me to comment on St. Thecla.

I'm flattered, but you guys are asking a lot, don't ya think?

So, you think Thecla is legendary? What is your basis for rejecting the account above as true?

No, Randy. You shouldn't be flattered. You should take a breather and reflect on what you know or don't know about history and the work ethics of authors back then. That's why Ehrman's book Forged is relevant (among others of course), since it gives you a glimpse of what you obviously don't know when making assertive claims. That's also why my question on the Vita Karoli is relevant, since it belongs to a genre that is called Vita among historians. Lying for the greater good, as Ehrman postulates, isn't confined to the bible. It's a general problematic that is found in the gospels, but also in every work that has been published back then and for centuries to come. That's why someone being serious about a certain topic doesn't take one source for granted. Knowing the rules of the game is the first step to know how to play it.


So, yes, your evidence is just picking and choosing and you may just as well preach to the quire, since hardly anyone here will take your seriously on that basis. And, Randy. To answer my question about the Vita Karoli you didn't have to know shit about the person in question. Some basic knowledge about the genre Vita and it's problematic would have been sufficient.