(September 4, 2015 at 9:30 pm)Parkers Tan Wrote:

(September 4, 2015 at 7:48 pm)Shuffle Wrote: And your colorful, irrelevant pie chart is?

Had you read the entirety of my post, you would have definitely learnt that that chart was based on the FBI statistics, to which I also linked.

It's apparent you're not interested in discussion. I'm tiring of your being deliberately obtuse.

But those were terrorist incidents. And they were in America.

(September 4, 2015 at 10:05 pm)Shuffle Wrote:

(September 4, 2015 at 9:27 pm)Parkers Tan Wrote: Haven't you heard of Anders Brejvik? That was what, 78 in one incident.  There's your five and then some.

Maybe you've heard of Ted Kaszcinski, or Sendero Luminoso, or the Tamil Tigers? All terrorists for one cause or another, death tolls ranging into the thousands, all within the last 25 years, and not a one of them Muslim. Shit, I didn't have to even google that. Inform yourself, kid, seriously.

I love how you can name individual terrorists, as if you can do that with Muslims.

Haven't you heard of 9/11? That was what, 2,977 in one incident. That's your 5 and then 2,972 more.

Maybe you've heard of ISIS, Al Qaeda, Al Shabaab, and Taliban? All terrorists for Islam, death tolls ranging in the tens of thousands, all within last week, and all of them Muslim. Shit, I didn't have to even google that. Inform yourself, kid, seriously.

Well, you're clearly ignoring the fact that I listed terrorists who've killed into the thousands, and posting simply for smart-ass points.

I'm a little old for your style of discourse, so I'll leave this conversation with the advice that you educate yourself.

Thankfully, educating you is not my task. Nothing blocks learning nearly so well as certainty, as you're very ably demonstrating tonight.

ETA: And you're deliberately ignoring the thousands I've mentioned killed by international, non-Muslim terrorists, in a clear demonstration of the futility of seeking a good discussion with you.

Have a good evening, now.

Napoléon Wrote:

Mister Agenda Wrote:Whatever you just posted is blocked by my worksite's software. Would you summarize, please?

Sure.


Responding to:

Mister Agenda Wrote:The perpertrators of most violent terrorist attacks on US soil in the last 30 years or the last 10 have been white non-muslims, so yes, I do deny it.

Summary: 9/11.

Thanks. So that's one. A horrificly bad one, but one.

thehedglin Wrote:

Mister Agenda Wrote:The perpertrators of most violent terrorist attacks on US soil in the last 30 years or the last 10 have been white non-muslims, so yes, I do deny it.

Okay, so now we have a CLAIM. You claim the perpetrators of most violent terrorist attacks on US soil in the last thirty years, and the last decade, have been white non-muslims. Is this correct?

Also, given that not all forum participants are likely to live inside the United States, so the majority of attacks in their country are from Muslims, are they allowed to criticize Islam?

I am just asking, because I want to be sure I have your ACTUAL position, and not a strawman. I also want to be sure we have some defined claims, that way no goalpost-shifting can be said to have occurred.

Anyone is allowed to criticize Islam. Just try to be accurate when you do it.

Shuffle Wrote:

Mister Agenda Wrote:January 13, Donetsk People's Republic, Ukrainian Christian Orthodox. Just the first one I came across (and it's very debatable whether the list is properly distinguishing terrorist attacks...what does it take to get Mexican drug cartels classified as terrorist groups? They've done in around 13,000 civilians and police so far this year). You're not very good at the liittle game you like to play, are you?

Ah! Damn it. You found one! Ok, lets play a new game. Try to find one that was committed by a muslim. Oh wait, 99% of them are. Shit.

The game seems to be 'Move the Goalposts'. I con't care to play that one.

Shuffle Wrote:

Mister Agenda Wrote:If Islam (or some other new religion) hadn't come along, the region would be largely Orthodox Christian. It would still be tribal, the women would still be covering their heads. If their political history remained roughly the same (we still deposed the Shah's predecessor, we still supported the rural tribes against the Soviets in Afghanistan, we still deposed the secular strongman ruling Iraq, etc.), you think we wouldn't be having these problems if the region were predominantly Christian?

America is predominantly Christian.

You noticed that, did you?

What I'm saying is that the history of the region, particularly in the last eighty years, more than accounts for the extremism and instability found there. I have no idea why you think your comment is relevant to that.

Shuffle Wrote:

Mister Agenda Wrote:There seems to be a high correlation of entire demographics being under suspicion for the actions of a few when the demographic is mainly non-European in ethnicity. White Christians can kill a roomful of black people or blow up an abortion clinic or shoot up schools without calls to profile whites or Christians.

But if it's a swarthy-skinned or slant-eyed foriegner, the response is...different. His race won't be questioned, but his nationality or religion will be used as a basis to drum up hate. But it's nothing to do with complexion. Honest.

List 5 incidents in which white christians kill roomfuls of black people. Just 5. That is all I want.

Do you know exactly how many abortion doctors have been killed? 7. 7. In ALLLLLLLL of history, 7 have been killed. Yup, you are right. That IS a big problem.

School shootings are not listed as terrorism, because they are almost never done because of religious or political movements. Try again.

So, after all that being said, I do not see any correlation between Islam and race.

I think that if I had started out naming five, you would want ten, because you can pick any arbitrary number as the number you find acceptable.

I didn't claim it was a big problem. I claimed that we react to these events differently when the people who are responsible resemble the majority.

Try engaging the actual statement instead of throwing out a red herring.

Most Muslims are Asian, African, or Middle Eastern. Muslims of European heritage are distinctly a minority within Islam at the present time.

Shuffle Wrote:

Mister Agenda Wrote:Oh please, please tell me about the rampant Sufi terrorism spreading across the country.

Ok, thanks for dodging my question. That was great.
And no, there is not Sufi terrorism spreading across the country because muslims make up 0.2% of America's population. Why would they be a problem?

Sorry, I couldn't even tell there was something to dodge because I didn't say anything about Christian terrorism in the USA being rampant.

Do you actually want to know something that is relevant to what I said?

CapnAwesome Wrote:

CapnAwesome Wrote:Whoa whoa whoa Mister Agenda, before you continue on I think you need to supply the quote of somebody saying that all Muslims are terrorists. Something that you said is being said in mass apparently. I just went through the first 10 google pages of "All Muslims are terrorists" and every single page was exactly what I said, people debunking that claim. However I don't think it can really be called debunking if nobody is actually saying it.

Just requoting before you get too off track. You said how you'd have to be willfully ignorant to miss this. So it should be easy to come up with. Instead I think you need to admit that this argument is a strawman.

Sorry to take so long to get back to you. I had a busy weekend.

I took a few minutes this morning before I came to work to look for examples, and though I came across a couple of rants and some truly outrageous posts that support my contention that it's not true that no one EVER says that, it wasn't enough to justify my saying you would have to be willfully ignorant to miss it, I withdraw my assertion and apologize for my tone.

I often engage with fundamentalist conservative Christian posters elsewhere and apparently I gained an exaggerated sense of how frequent that sort of statement is on the internet.

Apparently 'not all Muslims are terrorists' is the kind of thing people throw out when someone seems to be over-generalizing, like 'not all cops are crooked' or 'not all black people are criminals'. The person to whom they're responding may have said something to that effect, but most of the time they will not have literally said 'all cops are crooked' or 'all black people are criminals'.

Again, my apoligies, Cap'n. I should not have doubted your awesomeness.