(September 9, 2015 at 12:59 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I have a problem with them wanting to put that up right next to a Christian/Jewish symbol, though. Those Satanists did not invent the symbol of the Demon, the bible did. They took something that was made up to represent evil, and are trying to make it their own. Which is fine, I guess, but by putting it next to the 10 commandments statue, they are deliberately and knowingly trying to "defile" something that is very sacred for the majority of people in this country.

This gets into another issue: the "sincerely held belief" issue.  For the most part, the government is not allowed to inquire whether you profess a belief in a certain religion because you actually believe it or because it will give you some benefit to say you believe it.  Otherwise, the government would be making decisions about whether someone who claims they were discriminated against is a "real christian" or just pretending to be.  Any such determination would be extremely at odds with the first amendment, and would be really terrible on a civil rights level, probably.  Because, then, the government can't get into "motive" when someone claims they were discriminated against because they were christian, the government similarly can't get into motive when someone claims they're discriminated against for being satanist (or atheist or buddhist or ba'hai or not christian).  So, the "deliberately and knowingly defiling" aspect of things is, well, something that can trouble you personally but is definitely not a legitimate governmental concern.

If putting baphomet next to a christian symbol defiles that christian symbol, then having the christian symbol next to baphomet defiles baphomet.  The government is not allowed to care which came first.  Again, it's an issue of "we must be allowed to defile equally, or not at all."  Most of these people don't want to defile your symbols.  They want to make the point that our government is not allowed to declare a religious symbol "sacred", so if you want the government to recognize a symbol you believe is sacred you also have to have the government recognize a symbol that you believe defiles it.

(September 9, 2015 at 12:01 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: This stuff freaks me out like nothing else, but nonetheless it's kind of intriguing in a morbid sort of way. 

I saw this story on facebook this morning and was wondering what you guys thought:

That has to be about a year old. And they only reacted to the State errecting some christian monument in a State building. They're not the only ones, as far as I remember when I first read the story. The Hindus are lobbying for one of their gods too.

(September 9, 2015 at 1:37 pm)Exian Wrote: So have you aske the satanists what their symbol means? Maybe there are a few that don't mean to scare you.

My OP already says what it means to them lol. The problem I have is with them putting it right next to a Christian/Jewish symbol, because whether they like it or not, their symbol still originally comes from the Christian/Jewish religion as a symbol of evil. So by wanting to put it next to the Ten Commandments, they are knowingly and purposely defiling something that is sacred to a lot of people. Just pick a different spot in the same property.

(September 9, 2015 at 1:50 pm)Minimalist Wrote:

Quote:but a symbol is not an offensive thing in and of itself if its meaning can be different for different people.

Then why is it only symbols you approve of which get to be on public land?  Who made you the arbiter?

Keep your bloody religion in your homes and churches and you'll have no trouble from me.

As I said, I don't care about this or other symbols being on public land. But putting a symbol that came from the Christian/Jewish religion to represent evil, right next to a Christian/Jewish symbol, is a clear and deliberate sign of hostility towards an entire group of people. And that's the part I don't agree with.

If that is the area that the municipality set up for such nonsense then they are stuck with it.  Far better to ban all such crap but they chose to go another way.  Personally, I love it when the sanctimonious get bitten on the ass by their own plans!

(September 9, 2015 at 1:55 pm)abaris Wrote:

(September 9, 2015 at 12:01 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: This stuff freaks me out like nothing else, but nonetheless it's kind of intriguing in a morbid sort of way. 

I saw this story on facebook this morning and was wondering what you guys thought:

That has to be about a year old. And they only reacted to the State errecting some christian monument in a State building. They're not the only ones, as far as I remember when I first read the story. The Hindus are lobbying for one of their gods too.

Oh it is? The report is dated 9/8/15, which is yesterday. That's weird.

(September 9, 2015 at 1:57 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(September 9, 2015 at 1:37 pm)Exian Wrote: So have you aske the satanists what their symbol means? Maybe there are a few that don't mean to scare you.

My OP already says what it means to them lol. The problem I have is with them putting it right next to a Christian/Jewish symbol, because whether they like it or not, their symbol still originally comes from the Christian/Jewish religion as a symbol of evil. So by wanting to put it next to the Ten Commandments, they are knowingly and purposely defiling something that is sacred to a lot of people. Just pick a different spot in the same property.

Because either all religious symbols are banned from these buildings or all are allowed. By insisting that only christian symbols can be there you are oppressing people who are not christian. This was the intent of the statue, to rub peoples noses in religion.

(September 9, 2015 at 2:05 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(September 9, 2015 at 1:55 pm)abaris Wrote: That has to be about a year old. And they only reacted to the State errecting some christian monument in a State building. They're not the only ones, as far as I remember when I first read the story. The Hindus are lobbying for one of their gods too.

Oh it is? The report is dated 9/8/15, which is yesterday. That's weird.

I think efforts were started over a year ago in Oklahoma, and things fell apart there, so they have a statue with no home, and efforts are continuing to put it somewhere.  I remember hearing they were considering putting it near Detroit, Michigan, but that fell apart too.

(September 9, 2015 at 2:05 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Oh it is? The report is dated 9/8/15, which is yesterday. That's weird.

Well, maybe it happened again. It sounds the same as a story I've read about a year ago. The State errecting a christian display on State ground and Satanists as well as Hindus reacting to it by demanding the same rights.

(September 9, 2015 at 2:08 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote:

(September 9, 2015 at 1:57 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: My OP already says what it means to them lol. The problem I have is with them putting it right next to a Christian/Jewish symbol, because whether they like it or not, their symbol still originally comes from the Christian/Jewish religion as a symbol of evil. So by wanting to put it next to the Ten Commandments, they are knowingly and purposely defiling something that is sacred to a lot of people. Just pick a different spot in the same property.

Because either all religious symbols are banned from these buildings or all are allowed. By insisting that only christian symbols can be there you are oppressing people who are not christian. This was the intent of the statue, to rub peoples noses in religion.

Where did I say this?