Quote:Well, not one word of that nonsense is true.

But I bet he believes it on "faith." It's hard to argue with the terminally faithful.

(November 11, 2010 at 2:50 am)Minimalist Wrote:

Quote:Well, not one word of that nonsense is true.

But I bet he believes it on "faith." It's hard to argue with the terminally faithful.

Actually since OGM didn't given any reason as to why it was not true, and you beleived him, you are the one operating on blind-faith my not-so good friend.

(November 12, 2010 at 6:01 pm)Statler Waldorf Wrote:

(November 11, 2010 at 2:50 am)Minimalist Wrote:

Quote:Well, not one word of that nonsense is true.

But I bet he believes it on "faith." It's hard to argue with the terminally faithful.

Actually since OGM didn't given any reason as to why it was not true, and you beleived him, you are the one operating on blind-faith my not-so good friend.

I didn't have to give a reason. Anyone with half a brain and a highschool science education reading what you posted would know instinctively that it was nothing but pure bullshit.

Now you are just playing games with semantics. You are right, a person can’t use personal opinion to demonstrate an argument, it’s a good thing I didn’t use personal opinion though right? I used observation. I have never observed a textbook that represents Oort clouds as only a working theory; they all pass it off as a known validated fact. Now you will probably tell me that observation is not part of Science, but that is of course wrong.
Yes comets do represent one unknown factor in the current old Universe model; however they represent just one among numerous unknown factors with that model. It looks to me like we need to adopt a new model. This really isn’t proper scientific reasoning either since it can be used to fit any model. I could just as easily say, “Well distant starlight and background radiation are just two unknowns in our young universe model, but just because we have unknowns does not make our model invalid.” However, Creation Scientists have far better explanations for these two things than the the ways old universe guys try and explain comets. I find it also interesting you would use the background radiation and starlight issues to support your argument. The Big Bang model has its own starlight problem. Using this model the universe is not nearly old enough to explain the uniformity in background radiation that we observe. So to use evidence that disagrees wtiht he current model to argue against the creation model is hardly appropriate. However, since creationists can explain the “comet problem” with their model, it is very appropriate to use this as evidence against the current old universe model.
Now you are committing the very fallacy you claimed I committed. You said you believe it is plausible for the existence of an Oort cloud. This is obviously just your personal opinion since there is no observed evidence for the existence of any such structure.
You are right, “Develop a model, and test the model”. However, you test through observation, and since we cannot observe an Oort Cloud, Dark Matter, or Dark energy these are not good components to have in your model.

Absolutely not, argument not refuted. Being eternal is just one of the attributes that makes something God. So to call that assuming the proof would be like saying the following syllogism is invalid…
Premise 1: All cats have cat DNA
Premise 2: Fluffy has Cat DNA.
Conclusion: Fluffy is a cat.
You would turn around and say, “Sorry! You are assuming that all cats have Cat DNA, can’t assume that!”. Well of course I can assume it because it is what makes a cat a cat. Being eternal is one of the atttributes that makes God, well God. You may not agree with the premise that God is eternal, but disagreeing with a premise does not make an argument invalid logically.

Sounds like a good book actually. Well you’ll notice that I was not saying, “The Bible is historically accurate so therefore all of it is true.” I was arguing against the claim that the Bible is not historically accurate, which of course it is. So I agree with you on this, however I do not believe I was trying to make that argument.

Well several studies have been done demonstrating this problem. Unfortunately Creation guys are the only guys who actually consider doing these tests, it’s kind of sad that the secular community would use methods without first cross checking their validity. The tests are always done by Secular labs who are blind to the groups predictions so the data is legitimate. I would encourage you to pick up the peer-reviewed work done by the RATE Group that came out in 2008 I do believe. It is pretty complicated, but if you have a background in Geology it should be no problem. Let me see if I can find some other articles for you to look at.
If you want a secular source, this article as many P/Ar dating “muck ups” for rocks of known age…
40Ar/36Ar analysis of historic lava flows, Earth and Planetary Science Letters 6:47–55, By G.B. Dalrymple
Here are some creation guys who have done more recent tests and found similar data….
Snelling, A., Radioactive ‘dating’ failure: Recent New Zealand lava flows yield ‘ages’ of millions of years, Creation 22(1):18–21, 2000.
Austin, S.A. (ed.), Grand Canyon: Monument to Catastrophe, Institute for Creation Research, Santee, California, pp. 111–131, 1994.
Like I said earlier too, the RATE Group has work published too from 2001-2008 that shows many more cases of these erroneous ages.


We have to go back to the “nature of evidence” discussion again? You can’t support your assumptions by saying the evidence supports them when you used these very assumptions to interpret the evidence. If you look at ice cores for example you will find that only the first couple thousand years have obvious annuals, where after that the layers appear all “squished” and almost as one solid layer. Secular scientists just assume though, “Well this rate of annual accumulation has been constant so we will just keep counting using our assumed annual accumulation measurement.” Whereas the Creation Scientist says, “Well that’s exactly what we would expect because the huge amount of ice that all is devoid of annuals is a result of the ice age that post dates the global flood.” Using anti-biblical assumptions to interpret data, and then using this interpretation to argue against Scripture is assuming the proof. We see this done all the time with the fossil record, radiometric dating, and radio-carbon dating. That’s why I have said many times that this really comes down to Worldviews and not the useless platitude “well the evidence says”, evidence itself says nothing.



Well then you have not been reading all the literature on the subject. You should pick up literature on the subject written by Creationists and see what they consider evidence for a global flood. I think you will find it very interesting and I think it is more intellectually honest than a lot of the secular geologic material printed today. I think the fossil record is some of the best evidence for a global flood available.


Yes, it took me a couple hours (while watching football of course) to do all of the citations. I really appreciate your intellectual honesty on the matter and am also grateful that you took the time to read what I had written instead of just blowing it off as some do on here. I will be the first to admit that the peer-review system is important. It’s very important when checking data quality and control . I just have a beef with it when it borders on censorship or becomes kind of like the “cool kids” club. I think articles should be anonymous and should also not include a submitter’s university. A lot of people act like something becomes more “true” when it appears in the journal and I don’t think this is necessarily the case.
Well the Creation Peer Review system is fairly new (25 years or so) so yes Dr. Lisle is most likely correct, it is still working out some kinks. Though I don’t think I am giving them “blind” trust, I pointed out that I was trusting them on their track record, which to this point is very good. There was even a fraudulent article written (by Evolutionists trying to prove the Creation system was not valid) and submitted to the Journal of Creation (may have been the Answers Journal, can’t recall) that was rejected, I thought this was pretty cool that they caught it. I use the review system on both sides more for assurance that the calculations and data quality and control have all been checked, not a lot more than that really.


I was using that quote more to illustrate some of the dishonesty that these editors use. Claiming to be a place of intellectual honesty and fairness but then allowing a bad book review to stand and denying the author a chance to respond just because they are a Creationist is neither honest nor fair. The mentality this editor is taking is to me quite frankly disturbing. Science is not based on consensus, and this is a good thing. Could you imagine if this approach had always been used? “Well this Einstein guy wants to publish work on his relativity theory, but all the current work in the area disagrees with him so we will reject his submittal and then let a bunch of other Scientists bash on him in our journal and not let him have the chance to respond.” It’s kind of sickening people don’t just let the Science stand on its merit. So that was more of my point. Which Biblical Scholars are you referring to? The ones that I read tend to lean towards the YEC camp. It was actually interesting; ICR actually did a statistical study on the book of Genesis and the usage of the Hebrew verbs to determine whether it was written as historical narrative or just figurative allegory. The study came out conclusively that it was intended as historical narrative.

I did read that article but I can’t say I agree with its author much. He strikes me more as someone who got caught on shaky logical ground so he is trying the old “Despite my bad logic you still need to address the issue! So meh!” This of course is not true. I was taught in formal debate that if someone addresses you with an logically invalid argument you are in no way obligated to respond to the argument, just point out the fallacious use of logic and you win. You will see this in formal debates all the time. In fact, it is inappropriate to not point out problems in the other side’s logic because you then give credence to their bad arguments. A person must first present a valid argument before they can present a sound argument. All sound arguments are valid, not all valid arguments are sound. So if I can demonstrate the argument is invalid, then I have also demonstrated the argument cannot be sound. This is a very effective way of debating and I am not surprised that Dr. Lisle has frustrated a few people by using it.


Well I am gotting off here for the weekend, have a good weekend!

---

Lol, ah the old "Appeal to Common Sense" fallacy, nicely done. Well it's a good thing I don't have "half a brain", but rather I have a whole one. So to those of us who have whole brains it is not non-sense. Argument stands unrefuted, I win.

Statler, we are all very aware that creationists like to use the lazy argument that "it is only a theory". Please refrain from doing so as you know very well that scientific theories are not in the same catagory as 'Sally theorized that billy ate her soup'. The Oort cloud idea came about for several reasons:

1) No comet's path has been calculated to indicate as coming from interstellar space.

2) All comets so far seen don't all come from one point in space.

3) There is strong orbital and gravitational evidence that many comets furthest point from the Sun lies around 50,000 A.U., roughly 1 Light Year or 50,000 times the distance between Earth and the Sun.

No, there is no definitive evidence (yet) that the Oort cloud exists. So what?

---

Statler wrote:

Quote:Absolutely not, argument not refuted. Being eternal is just one of the attributes that makes something God. So to call that assuming the proof would be like saying the following syllogism is invalid…
Premise 1: All cats have cat DNA
Premise 2: Fluffy has Cat DNA.
Conclusion: Fluffy is a cat.
You would turn around and say, “Sorry! You are assuming that all cats have Cat DNA, can’t assume that!”. Well of course I can assume it because it is what makes a cat a cat. Being eternal is one of the atttributes that makes God, well God. You may not agree with the premise that God is eternal, but disagreeing with a premise does not make an argument invalid logically.]

O.M.G! Before you can even begin to present a validating argument that your God is eternal, you first have to prove that your God even exists. Unless you are arguing that your God is a cat named Fluffy. If so, I can almost believe that.

(November 12, 2010 at 11:15 pm)orogenicman Wrote:

Quote:Absolutely not, argument not refuted. Being eternal is just one of the attributes that makes something God. So to call that assuming the proof would be like saying the following syllogism is invalid…
Premise 1: All cats have cat DNA
Premise 2: Fluffy has Cat DNA.
Conclusion: Fluffy is a cat.
You would turn around and say, “Sorry! You are assuming that all cats have Cat DNA, can’t assume that!”. Well of course I can assume it because it is what makes a cat a cat. Being eternal is one of the attributes that makes God, well God. You may not agree with the premise that God is eternal, but disagreeing with a premise does not make an argument invalid logically.

O.M.G! Before you can even begin to present a validating argument that your God is eternal, you first have to prove that your God even exists. Unless you are arguing that your God is a cat named Fluffy. If so, I can almost believe that.

He hasn't even made an effort to provide evidence for the existence of this supposed "Fluffy", or it's DNA. Fluffy could be a hamster, or a piece of dandruff from a cat that would subsequently possess the DNA of a cat, or Fluffy could be a figment of his imagination -- and still other realms of possibility exist with this abstract concept of "Fluffy". Until we can assert Fluffy's existence, we can not assume it's attributes.

(November 12, 2010 at 9:01 pm)Statler Waldorf Wrote: Now you are just playing games with semantics. You are right, a person can’t use personal opinion to demonstrate an argument, it’s a good thing I didn’t use personal opinion though right? I used observation. I have never observed a textbook that represents Oort clouds as only a working theory; they all pass it off as a known validated fact. Now you will probably tell me that observation is not part of Science, but that is of course wrong.

I would not presume to say that observation is not a part of Science. You seem to think you know what I am going to say Statler I’m not sure why, but alas, this is not the case.

That’s right, you observed a textbook. Then you formed an opinion about how that material had been presented and how you understood it. Obviously both your opinion and your observations are subjective with regards to this. So you are still no nearer to proving your assertion that secular science is trying to pass the Oort Cloud theory of as a validated fact and therefore your argument that secular science uses ‘Super-Natural Rescue Mechanisms’ all the time is left severely lacking.

A quick look at Wiki also produces this;

Wikipedia Wrote:The Oort cloud (pronounced /ˈɔrt/ ort, alternatively the Öpik-Oort cloud IPA: [ˈøpik]) is a hypothesized spherical cloud of comets which may lie roughly 50,000 AU, or nearly a light-year, from the Sun.[1] This places the cloud at nearly a quarter of the distance to Proxima Centauri, the nearest star to the Sun. The Kuiper belt and scattered disc, the other two reservoirs of trans-Neptunian objects, are less than one thousandth the Oort cloud's distance. The outer extent of the Oort cloud defines the gravitational boundary of our Solar System.

It’s a pretty interesting read as well, take a look;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oort_Cloud

As Orogenicman said Statler, this hasn’t just been dreamt up on the spot and no one is claiming it as an observed and validated fact as of yet. The evidence is however, strong. I hope you can now understand my original point i.e. that the Oort Cloud is a scientifically valid, natural theory.

(November 12, 2010 at 9:01 pm)Statler Waldorf Wrote: Yes comets do represent one unknown factor in the current old Universe model; however they represent just one among numerous unknown factors with that model. It looks to me like we need to adopt a new model.

Hence why you’re not and astronomer I guess. The presence of unknown variables does not invalidate a model by default. These are unknown features which still require investigation and quantification. They haven’t just been omitted or ignored because they don’t fit as you seem to think.

(November 12, 2010 at 9:01 pm)Statler Waldorf Wrote: This really isn’t proper scientific reasoning either since it can be used to fit any model. I could just as easily say, “Well distant starlight and background radiation are just two unknowns in our young universe model, but just because we have unknowns does not make our model invalid.” However, Creation Scientists have far better explanations for these two things than the the ways old universe guys try and explain comets.

Hmmmm ...

So it isn’t proper scientific reasoning to establish an effective model based on the observations you have, then theorise about any unknown factors and then begin observations to validate these theories? That is what you’re saying.

You’re right; having those unknowns in your models would not invalidate it. I fail to see where you were going with that.

I’m sure in your opinion they are far greater explanations Statler. Which Journal did you say they were published in? Oh, wait . . .

(November 12, 2010 at 9:01 pm)Statler Waldorf Wrote: Now you are committing the very fallacy you claimed I committed. You said you believe it is plausible for the existence of an Oort cloud. This is obviously just your personal opinion since there is no observed evidence for the existence of any such structure.

Have you forgotten how scientific theories work? See Orogenicmans post, the theory was devised based on the observations we had and is not accepted as fact as of yet. Also you were making absolute statements I said it was a ‘plausible theory’ . . . different things I’m afraid.

(November 12, 2010 at 9:01 pm)Statler Waldorf Wrote: You are right, “Develop a model, and test the model”. However, you test through observation, and since we cannot observe an Oort Cloud, Dark Matter, or Dark energy these are not good components to have in your model.

Okay, So tell me Statler . . . How was the theory of gravity tested?

It was tested by observing its effects, which correlated with the theory. First off, your assertion that you can only test through direct observation is absolutely ludicrous. Secondly you say that having features we cannot observe in a model is ‘not good’ . . . any assumptions/unobservable/unknowable variable in ‘your’ model? Be honest . . .

(November 12, 2010 at 9:01 pm)Statler Waldorf Wrote: Absolutely not, argument not refuted. Being eternal is just one of the attributes that makes something God. So to call that assuming the proof would be like saying the following syllogism is invalid…
Premise 1: All cats have cat DNA
Premise 2: Fluffy has Cat DNA.
Conclusion: Fluffy is a cat.
You would turn around and say, “Sorry! You are assuming that all cats have Cat DNA, can’t assume that!”. Well of course I can assume it because it is what makes a cat a cat. Being eternal is one of the atttributes that makes God, well God. You may not agree with the premise that God is eternal, but disagreeing with a premise does not make an argument invalid logically.

As Orogenciman & Lethe said, before you can start to make validating arguments for your God, you first have to prove ‘it’ exists otherwise your just making a circular argument. To use a simplified syllogism like that is foolish Statler.

All you’re doing is trying to bolster a faulty argument (Prime Mover or Original Cause) with theological babble about the attributes of God.

(November 12, 2010 at 9:01 pm)Statler Waldorf Wrote: Sounds like a good book actually. Well you’ll notice that I was not saying, “The Bible is historically accurate so therefore all of it is true.” I was arguing against the claim that the Bible is not historically accurate, which of course it is. So I agree with you on this, however I do not believe I was trying to make that argument.

Actually, what you were doing was trying to argue that the bible was an ‘eyewitness account’ of historical events based on the premise that it is used in archaeology all the time . . . by your own admission this is not the case.
BTW ... That book idea is mine I’m watching all of you! *joke*

(November 12, 2010 at 9:01 pm)Statler Waldorf Wrote: Well several studies have been done demonstrating this problem. Unfortunately Creation guys are the only guys who actually consider doing these tests, it’s kind of sad that the secular community would use methods without first cross checking their validity. The tests are always done by Secular labs who are blind to the groups predictions so the data is legitimate. I would encourage you to pick up the peer-reviewed work done by the RATE Group that came out in 2008 I do believe. It is pretty complicated, but if you have a background in Geology it should be no problem. Let me see if I can find some other articles for you to look at.
. . .Like I said earlier too, the RATE Group has work published too from 2001-2008 that shows many more cases of these erroneous ages.

I’m still trying to make my mind up about something here ... You see I looked up some of this RATE groups work.

I read it through, noted some of my criticisms, mainly concerning poor or inaccurate methodologies, misidentification of specimens, fraudulent alterations to previous works, invalid assumptions, the fact that the sample were processed by ICR not a ‘Secular Lab’. I started to write a critique actually but it was taking a long time and I have Uni work to do. Anyways here is a complete refutation by a Secular Scientist;

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/helium/zircons.html

And a Christian;

http://www.answersincreation.org/RATE_cr..._he-zr.htm

Oh, and before you say it Statler, I reviewed your sides rebuttals here;

http://creationwiki.org/Criticism_of_RAT...usion_data

I hope you’ll note the complete lack of any counter to the serious issues raised in the previous two articles. Most of it is just them saying . . . “Yes, thats right but it doesn’t really matter does it?” and then kind of shrugging it off. I actually find it intellectually offensive if I’m honest.

So, this was the ‘evidence’ for non-constant radioactive decay rates then? Colour me unimpressed. Obviously I haven’t read all their work but this paper presents a serious challenge to their credibility with regards anything else they might have to say.

(November 12, 2010 at 9:01 pm)Statler Waldorf Wrote: We have to go back to the “nature of evidence” discussion again? You can’t support your assumptions by saying the evidence supports them when you used these very assumptions to interpret the evidence. If you look at ice cores for example you will find that only the first couple thousand years have obvious annuals, where after that the layers appear all “squished” and almost as one solid layer. Secular scientists just assume though, “Well this rate of annual accumulation has been constant so we will just keep counting using our assumed annual accumulation measurement.” Whereas the Creation Scientist says, “Well that’s exactly what we would expect because the huge amount of ice that all is devoid of annuals is a result of the ice age that post dates the global flood.” Using anti-biblical assumptions to interpret data, and then using this interpretation to argue against Scripture is assuming the proof. We see this done all the time with the fossil record, radiometric dating, and radio-carbon dating. That’s why I have said many times that this really comes down to Worldviews and not the useless platitude “well the evidence says”, evidence itself says nothing.

Well, that’s not how Ice Core analysis works. First of all, the layers are ‘squished’ as you so eloquently put it, due to the accumulation of ice above them. Furthermore, we don’t just ‘keep counting’. We use ice core analyses to see how much ice accumulated at a certain time (among other things), thus indicating the nature of the climate at that time. Also we use layers of ash, pollen and other things in combination with radiometric dating (which you have yet to prove is inaccurate) to assist in this.

So to say a constant accumulation rate is assumed actually makes you seem rather ill-informed. Hey, I suppose AIG haven’t recruited an ‘expert’ in this field yet though. Also we use layers of ash, pollen and other things in combination with radiometric dating (which you have yet to prove is inaccurate) to assist in this.
I’ll paraphrase from Tiberiuss signature (@AH: Hope you don’t mind);

All opinions and assumptions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic, observation and argument than others.
Can we seriously drop this BS, I’m sick of hearing;

“Yes, yes ... that is and has been validated by science for years but you’re assuming .................................. Which I think is false because of the bible”

From now on why don’t you state categorically the assumptions you have an issue with when you have them.
I’ll say it again, the assumptions we use have been validated (in many cases) by over a hundred years of scientific study, whereas you can’t even prove any of your base assumptions or support them in observation enough to get anyone to listen to you.

(November 12, 2010 at 9:01 pm)Statler Waldorf Wrote: Well then you have not been reading all the literature on the subject. You should pick up literature on the subject written by Creationists and see what they consider evidence for a global flood. I think you will find it very interesting and I think it is more intellectually honest than a lot of the secular geologic material printed today. I think the fossil record is some of the best evidence for a global flood available.

You’re right. I’ve been focussing my reading on the scientifically valid journals used by Academic & Professional organisations in my field of study. Considering I played to this once I fail to see why I should if you cannot even relates some of these ideas coherently.

(November 12, 2010 at 9:01 pm)Statler Waldorf Wrote: Well the Creation Peer Review system is fairly new (25 years or so) so yes Dr. Lisle is most likely correct, it is still working out some kinks. Though I don’t think I am giving them “blind” trust, I pointed out that I was trusting them on their track record, which to this point is very good.

Not from what I’ve seen. In fact if the group you presented are to be taken as representative I’d say it has a pretty poor track record. I have to note that no secular journal would allow some of the things that were done by Dr. Humphreys.

(November 12, 2010 at 9:01 pm)Statler Waldorf Wrote: It was actually interesting; ICR actually did a statistical study on the book of Genesis and the usage of the Hebrew verbs to determine whether it was written as historical narrative or just figurative allegory. The study came out conclusively that it was intended as historical narrative.

And this proves?

It would seem that this kind of analysis could not distinguish between something written to imitate a historical narrative and an actual historical narrative. As for which Scholars; I’m relatively sure that both the Catholic Church & Church of England now refute that genesis is an accurate account of creation. I can’t be sure though.

(November 12, 2010 at 9:01 pm)Statler Waldorf Wrote: I did read that article but I can’t say I agree with its author much. He strikes me more as someone who got caught on shaky logical ground so he is trying the old “Despite my bad logic you still need to address the issue! So meh!” This of course is not true. I was taught in formal debate that if someone addresses you with an logically invalid argument you are in no way obligated to respond to the argument, just point out the fallacious use of logic and you win. You will see this in formal debates all the time. In fact, it is inappropriate to not point out problems in the other side’s logic because you then give credence to their bad arguments. A person must first present a valid argument before they can present a sound argument. All sound arguments are valid, not all valid arguments are sound. So if I can demonstrate the argument is invalid, then I have also demonstrated the argument cannot be sound. This is a very effective way of debating and I am not surprised that Dr. Lisle has frustrated a few people by using it.

He wasn’t really on shaky logical ground though. Dr. Lisle was picking up on the ‘Question Begging Epithet’ which is not sufficient to discount an argument in a debate. He simply uses emotive language to emphasise his point which does not make the logic invalid.

Also, this technique is used in formal debates. It removes the argument from consideration by the judges. Obviously there are no judges here so all you achieve is dodging the question.

(November 12, 2010 at 9:01 pm)Statler Waldorf Wrote: Lol, ah the old "Appeal to Common Sense" fallacy, nicely done. Well it's a good thing I don't have "half a brain", but rather I have a whole one. So to those of us who have whole brains it is not non-sense. Argument stands unrefuted, I win.

Please don’t start arbitrarily claiming ‘I win’ Statler ... It is pointless and puerile, in fact I suspect you are doing it just to annoy people. I would much rather you just fuck off if you’re going to start doing it.

Cheers

Sam

(November 12, 2010 at 9:01 pm)Statler Waldorf Wrote: Absolutely not, argument not refuted. Being eternal is just one of the attributes that makes something God. So to call that assuming the proof would be like saying the following syllogism is invalid…
Premise 1: All cats have cat DNA
Premise 2: Fluffy has Cat DNA.
Conclusion: Fluffy is a cat.
You would turn around and say, “Sorry! You are assuming that all cats have Cat DNA, can’t assume that!”. Well of course I can assume it because it is what makes a cat a cat. Being eternal is one of the atttributes that makes God, well God. You may not agree with the premise that God is eternal, but disagreeing with a premise does not make an argument invalid logically.

This caught my attention. Statler, eternity is just a concept. Realistically you cannot reach it, you cannot realise something eternal because you can't measure or falsify it by its own definition. Indeed, why even assert "god" as eternal in the first instance? If you were credible and had an appreciation for the English language you would've argued your god hypothesis is transfinite instead, because at least then while you're asserting while he's greater than all things finite he's not necessarily infinite and risk making an erroneous assumption since eternal is not an attribute that provides a clear positive ontology for the existence of god, or any deity for that matter.

Anyway, you may return to your wonderful delusional-state that your brilliant arguments' premises don't require confirmers like real-world arguments, but refuters now. Ah, to live but a day in your life.

According to Statler:

Quote:40Ar/36Ar analysis of historic lava flows, Earth and Planetary Science Letters 6:47–55, By G.B. Dalrymple (who, he claims, refutes in some detail the various claims that radioactive decay rates may be influenced by neutrinos, neutrons, and cosmic radiation, including Dudley's "neutrino sea.")

The problem, sir, is that there is nothing in that book about the effect of neutrinos on decay rates.

What's more, Ireported in the following link on recent research that shows that there is no evidence that neutrinos affect decay rates.

http://atheistforums.org/thread-5027.html

A post which you have yet to respond to.