the effectiveness of faith is based on faith and trying to measure that empirically to objectify it is a little ridiculous.

That is the same as saying that belief in and prayer to God has no physical manifestation, including physical health. Are you sure you want to take that position Tack?

Don't any of these praying type of people think that if there is a god that maybe god is tired of all of the whining coming from the USA? Beyond the usual there is no god listening in the first place, people are just getting stupid with this praying. Praying to win a little league baseball game, praying to put on a good concert, praying for money, praying for even more money, praying for a car or praying for god to smite your enemy the god channel is a roar of prayer.

I know if I were god I'd perform a miracle, I'd make sure that coast-to-coast and border-to-border everyone heard the Divine answer to all prayers:

STFU! I can't take any more of this whining!

(November 20, 2010 at 11:33 pm)tackattack Wrote: the effectiveness of faith is based on faith.

My standards don't go that low.

(November 20, 2010 at 11:33 pm)tackattack Wrote: the effectiveness of faith is based on faith and trying to measure that empirically to objectify it is a little ridiculous.

Oh its not ridiculous at all. It is not the atheist who claims that there is a personal god who is capable of intervening in the material world. Infact the lack of evidence found for any such events, including prayer efficacy, is an excellent emprical demonstration of the abject failure of that position. If you retreat to faith then OK you could still be left with deism, but not a personal god.

(November 19, 2010 at 4:34 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote:

(November 19, 2010 at 12:21 am)FadingW Wrote: It is claimed that answered prayers strengthen the argument for the existence of God.

If that is so, why are unanswered prayers not counted against the existence of God?

Can we really accept as evidence a test where negative results are disregarded?

I think the traditional response is.

'god answers all prayers, its just that mainly the answer is 'no''

I get conflicted sometimes because my argument against there being a god is so good that it can tear apart someone's belief system and actually depress them. The only good thing about religion is that it makes people behave because they believe they will be punished in hell if they don't. A world full of true atheist would have a huge murder rate along with everything else. I feel that I am no better than a missionary type person trying to convert someone if I talk about athiesm to religious believers.

I think we must be the most arrogant race to believe that we have souls. That god waited 4.5 billion years to announce himself in the past 2,000 years and that he needed to sacrifice his son or part of himself so that we could sin and be forgiven because he let himself die on the cross. This all powerful god needed to do this or we all go to hell. We really are full of ourselves.
The only true hell I can think of is existing forever in any form of afterlife.

I truely understand the beginnings of religion because we were ignorant of how things worked. If I was alive 6000 plus years ago, I may have been taught that the Sun was a god and believed it. Even 1000 years ago without our understandings of microscopic world of germs,bacteria, and viruses, I would think I may believe in being punished this way. We have pretty much all the scientific answers to everything was attributed to a god, so why do we still believe we are being punished or rewarded by events that are caused by people and world of physics?

(November 21, 2010 at 8:38 pm)DANSURP Wrote: A world full of true atheist would have a huge murder rate along with everything else.

I'm curious as to why you would think that.

Quote:The only good thing about religion is that it makes people behave because they believe they will be punished in hell if they don't.

I really think you need to re-evaluate that belief of yours.

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2004...-32.0.html

Quote:Weblog: Nigerian Christians Attack Muslims, Kill Dozens

Never forget the wise words of Stephen Weinberg:

Quote:“Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you'd have good people doing good things and evil people doing bad things, but for good people to do bad things, it takes religion.”

(November 21, 2010 at 10:43 pm)cdog Wrote:

(November 21, 2010 at 8:38 pm)DANSURP Wrote: A world full of true atheist would have a huge murder rate along with everything else.

I'm curious as to why you would think that.

I mean that what holds people back from doing horrible things like murder besides the law is fear of being punished in the afterlife. I should have phrased it as if the world had no religion or belief in anything after death rather than true atheist. Though it would be one in the same. If everyone truly believed that once you are dead, you cease to exist in any form forever, they would risk doing alot more in life.

---

I know if I were god I'd perform a miracle, I'd make sure that coast-to-coast and border-to-border everyone heard the Divine answer to all prayers:

STFU! I can't take any more of this whining!


I agree! If people sat back and realized that they are either talking to themselves in their heads or speaking to the air and nothing is listening, they may re-think doing it. It kills me when I hear for example that during a tornado, "God spared my home" and "praise the lord for saving my family" while the next house over was destroyed and killed the family inside. It is amazing how self-important people make themselves and actually believe a god is listening.

The most senseless prayer is after someone dies and people say I will pray for you. WTF is that going to do even with a God? God according to the bible which man wrote only killed and resurrected himself.
WAIT..sorry, I forgot about the $1000 prayer donation you can make on god tv. That is the dumbest prayer except for the people stealing your money.

Has anyone thought about how horrible it would be to be god? It would be at least 13.8 billion years old and would have to keep track of billions of people over time listening to billions of prayers and keeping track of who is good and who is bad.

Quote:If everyone truly believed that once you are dead, you cease to exist in any form forever, they would risk doing alot more in life.

Are you planning to abolish the jails as well? The threat of imprisonment is a far greater deterrent than any silly-ass god. Plenty of murders have been carried out by people who claim 'god' told them to do it.