(November 23, 2010 at 4:21 am)Rayaan Wrote: There might've been more evil people in the world if there was no Islam.

There might, but there probably won't be. Much of what Islam regards as more "good", the more enlightened civilizations of the world would deem more "bad".

(November 23, 2010 at 4:21 am)Rayaan Wrote: problem is that you guys only like to exaggerate the bad things and ignore the good things about Islam. But of course, you won't find any good in the religion since you believe that all religions are BS anyways.

We might not find any religion that is a net good after weighing the good each offers against the price of superstition each demands, but we definitely find many religions to be less bad than Islam.

(November 23, 2010 at 4:21 am)Rayaan Wrote: You don't even believe in God, an afterlife, and divine wisdom. So, there's no way to show you that there is any good in Islam if you don't believe in it in the first place.

There are ways. If Islam doesn't issue fatwas for insulting the prophet, if Islam doesn't treat nonbelivers like lesser human beings, if the name of Islam does not lend itself so easily to calls of Jihad and glorious explosions, if Islam embrace modernity rather than cling tenaciously to 7th century beliefs that were backwards even for the 7th century, then we might entertain the possibility that there is good in Islam significant enough to warrant notice. As it is Islam offers nothing good that could not be gotten in greater quantities with fewer strings attached from many other sources. Even the solace it purported to offer can be obtained in similar quantities, albeit in slightly different superficial expressions, from numerous other less violent and intransigent traditional deceits of the world. So while offering goods of no great distinction, Islam exacts a particular price in insularity, backwardness, violence on a scale that admits to no large scale equal even when with competitors such as christianity.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00...mic_Rules/

The full report, for people in Britain able to watch iPlayer.

---

The report finds that the books being used in some of these Islamic schools are used as the Saudi national curriculum. among other things it says in a book for 6 year olds "Islam is the one true religion. Anyone who dies outside of Islam will enter the fire." 15 year olds learn about Sharia law. How thieves have a hand cut off for a first offence and a foot for the second. With diagrams showing where the cuts must be made. The punishment for gay sex is death. But there is a discussion on this issue in the form of the punishment, either death by stoning, burnt by fire or thrown over a cliff so at least it's being fair there then. It also talks about jews wanting to take over the world and that they look like pigs and monkeys.

(November 23, 2010 at 12:57 am)Rayaan Wrote:

(November 22, 2010 at 10:16 pm)Skipper Wrote: And you yourself agree with killing someone who decides they don't want to believe in Islam any more, so don't try and claim you are anything but evil as well.

No, I never said that I agree with killing someone who leaves Islam.

You seem to be defending it here;

(November 19, 2010 at 5:22 am)Rayaan Wrote: The punishment for apostasy in Islam is death (if they say it publicly).
But at least the punishment might save them from burning in Hell for eternity, which is infinity times worse than getting killed.

You say it is better for them to be killed than to burn in hell. Even with a nice smiley at the end of your sentence discussing why your fellow Muslims may kill people who disagree with them.

(November 23, 2010 at 4:21 am)Rayaan Wrote: There might've been more evil people in the world if there was no Islam.

Wrong. Being good or evil has nothing to do with religion. To paraphrase Steven Weingarten, without religion good people would still do good things and evil people would still do evil things. But to get good people to do evil things, that takes religion!

Quote:The problem is that you guys only like to exaggerate the bad things

I don't think it's possible to exaggerate the horrors of 9/11, suicide bombings or beheading innocent people, videotaping it and putting it on the internet.

Quote:and ignore the good things about Islam.

I'll let you know when I see something "good" about Islam.

Quote:But of course, you won't find any good in the religion since you believe that all religions are BS anyways.

Sharia Law. Now show me something "good".

Quote:You don't even believe in God, an afterlife, and divine wisdom. So, there's no way to show you that there is any good in Islam if you don't believe in it in the first place.

I don't believe in the tenets of Buddhism, but I can see the good in its teachings.

(November 23, 2010 at 4:21 am)Rayaan Wrote: There might've been more evil people in the world if there was no Islam.

There would definitely be at least 3000 more people in the world if it wasnt for Islam.(oh yeah i went there)

The kind of Islam they had in spain in the middle ages seemed cool for a bit compared to the rest of christian europe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Andalus

But I think that is where my admiration for Islam ends, it was a worthy religion in the 1400s, but has failed to evolve significantly since then and is mired in the medeival mentatlity that it blights the world with now.

(November 23, 2010 at 4:21 am)Rayaan Wrote: You don't even believe in God, an afterlife, and divine wisdom. So, there's no way to show you that there is any good in Islam if you don't believe in it in the first place.

That is a stupid & weak strawman you just threw up there. If there is any good done in this world, it's people doing it, not religion.

(November 23, 2010 at 1:22 am)Chuck Wrote: Everyone who does anything in the name of Islam is a true Muslim as far as I am concerned. If the aggregate of all that is done in the name of islam is more bad than good as far as nonmuslim who have no interest in Islam is concerned, then Islam is more bad than good.

Thats just like saying anyone who does anything in the name of atheism is a true athiest.

F00lishness.

All relgions are more or less full of shit, but I sense a tendency of instant condemnation of the good people in the middle east due to race more than anything else. You foolish puppet! Guzzle down another tablespoon of media propganda.

(November 23, 2010 at 5:11 pm)Cerrone Wrote:

(November 23, 2010 at 1:22 am)Chuck Wrote: Everyone who does anything in the name of Islam is a true Muslim as far as I am concerned. If the aggregate of all that is done in the name of islam is more bad than good as far as nonmuslim who have no interest in Islam is concerned, then Islam is more bad than good.

Thats just like saying anyone who does anything in the name of atheism is a true athiest.

F00lishness.

All relgions are more or less full of shit, but I sense a tendency of instant condemnation of the good people in the middle east due to race more than anything else. You foolish puppet! Guzzle down another tablespoon of media propganda.

How many of the good people stood up to protest against the Fatwa calling for Salman Rushdie's head merely because Rushdie spoke his mind?

(November 23, 2010 at 5:11 pm)Cerrone Wrote: You foolish puppet! Guzzle down another tablespoon of media propganda.

Yea! Fuck the system!!!

(November 23, 2010 at 4:21 am)Rayaan Wrote: ... there's no way to show you that there is any good in Islam if you don't believe in it in the first place.

Damn right. Ya gotta believe it before you can believe it.

(November 23, 2010 at 11:24 am)Thor Wrote: I don't think it's possible to exaggerate the horrors of 9/11, suicide bombings or beheading innocent people, videotaping it and putting it on the internet.

These are some of the things which create a misunderstanding of Islam in the minds of Muslims and non-Muslims. But the truth is that terrorism, suicide bombing, and flying airplanes into a building, and all the people who do those stupid things, do NOT represent Islam. These acts of violence are contradictory to the teachings of Islam. There is nothing in the Quran that tells us to strap ourselves with bombs and kill innocent cilivians. All the extremist groups think that this is what is meant by Jihad according to the Quran, but this is a serious misunderstanding because a Jihad is only permissible when we are being threatened or attacked by the enemies of Islam and when we have to defend ourselves.

(November 23, 2010 at 9:26 am)Skipper Wrote: You say it is better for them to be killed than to burn in hell. Even with a nice smiley at the end of your sentence discussing why your fellow Muslims may kill people who disagree with them.

I was defending it but I don't support it either (i.e death punishments for apostasy), nor do I hate it, because the punishments in Hell could be even more dangerous than that.

Back on topic, I saw the BBC report on youtube and I'm not surprised by this at all.

Its just one of the many attempts by the media to degrade Islam in the eyes of the Britons and especially because so many people are converting to Islam. But surely the truth will come out after more investigation. Also, remember that the media is not always going to promote everything that is 100% reliable and trustworthy. We know that editing a program is a big part of sensationalism.

Also, why didn't the journalists ask anything to the students? Why didn't the program show a single comment from any of the students, as a witness, to prove that they were actually being taught to cut off the hands of criminals? The journalists were only talking to people with beautiful beards on their face, but they didn't interview any of the students. What's the reason for that?