(September 29, 2015 at 3:00 pm)Simon Moon Wrote:

(September 29, 2015 at 10:04 am)Little Rik Wrote: The fact that you went through doesn't mean that you got it right.  

Belief is the state of mind in which a person thinks something to be the case..................

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belief

Yes, belief is the psychological state in which one accepts a premise or proposition as being true. 
The problem is (which I'm sure you will not understand, but here goes anyway), when someone disbelieves a claim, they do not necessarily believe the opposite claim by default. 
So, when we say we do not believe your claims, we do not, by default believe they are false. We just don't believe you have been able to support your claims enough to accept them as being true.
And on a side note, there are good reasons to believe something, and there are bad reasons. 
Good reasons:
Demonstrable, repeatable, falsifiable evidence. 
Valid and sound logic.
Bad reasons:
Personal experience. 
Anecdotal evidence. 
Ancient texts. 
The strengths of ones beliefs should be proportional to the strength of the evidence. The type of evidence that you provide is low strength.

You go round and around in circle saying so many things that mean absolutely nothing.
When you guys say........THE CONSCIOUSNESS IS A PRODUCT OF THE BRAIN, you state or make a claim but this claim doesn't have any evidence to support his validity so you can not say that is all about disbelieving a claim and similar bullshit.
This is crap.
Your argument is a total crap.      

(September 30, 2015 at 10:42 am)Little Rik Wrote: How the hell can physical science be able to investigate something outside his competence as the consciousness?  

Consciousness is the result of physical processes.

And science is, by definition, capable of investigating anything that exists, because science is just the art of observing things and making rational conclusions based on those observations. To say that something cannot be examined scientifically is to say that it cannot be observed - but, if it cannot be observed, it does not exist, by definition.

For those who have never met me before, note the use of the word "cannot" here, not just "currently cannot" or "cannot practically". Existence does not require that we have observed something - just that it is, in some way, however difficult, observable.

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(September 30, 2015 at 10:53 am)Little Rik Wrote: When you guys say........THE CONSCIOUSNESS IS A PRODUCT OF THE BRAIN, you state or make a claim but this claim doesn't have any evidence to support his validity so you can not say that is all about disbelieving a claim and similar bullshit.

Well, no. We do have evidence. In fact, we have literally everything ever experienced by anyone, ever as evidence.

Literally every experience anyone has ever had is not only consistent with the idea of consciousness arising from brain activity, but only makes sense if this is the case. For more direct evidence, there is the fact that no one without a brain (or, in the case of some simpler animals, some sort of primitive nervous system acting as a stand-in) is conscious, and that rendering the brain inoperable makes that being no longer conscious. Damaging, altering, or interacting with the brain also alters consciousness directly.

Everything that we know about the brain and consciousness - and we know quite a lot more than I think you realize - indicates that consciousness is a product of the brain.

If you believe otherwise, the onus is upon you to prove your position.

(September 30, 2015 at 10:53 am)Little Rik Wrote: You go round and around in circle saying so many things that mean absolutely nothing.[...]

It may appear that way to you - that's because you don't have the intelligence required to even begin to comprehend things. Your dog thinks the same about pretty much everything you say.

You never thought about that, did you, dumbass?



You're lucky stupidity doesn't hurt - you'd never stop screaming...

(September 30, 2015 at 10:53 am)Little Rik Wrote: When you guys say........THE CONSCIOUSNESS IS A PRODUCT OF THE BRAIN, you state or make a claim but this claim doesn't have any evidence to support his validity so you can not say that is all about disbelieving a claim and similar bullshit.
This is crap.
Your argument is a total crap.        

Here's the thing:  Scientists have mapped thought processes in the human brain.  We have watched people think, measured how they think, etc.  Measurements have been made after death.  Electrical impulses have ceased, nothing happening there.

So if you are going to assert that our argument is total crap, then the burden of proof is upon YOU.  Prove it.  Show us a ghost.  Show us a spirit.  Make it measurable and film-able and verifiable.  Prove that disembodied intelligence exists and the argument is over.  You win. And that is the ONLY way to win.

(September 30, 2015 at 10:53 am)Little Rik Wrote: You go round and around in circle saying so many things that mean absolutely nothing.
When you guys say........THE CONSCIOUSNESS IS A PRODUCT OF THE BRAIN, you state or make a claim but this claim doesn't have any evidence to support his validity so you can not say that is all about disbelieving a claim and similar bullshit.
This is crap.
Your argument is a total crap.        

Having a bad day?

(September 30, 2015 at 10:53 am)Little Rik Wrote: You go round and around in circle saying so many things that mean absolutely nothing.
When you guys say........THE CONSCIOUSNESS IS A PRODUCT OF THE BRAIN, you state or make a claim but this claim doesn't have any evidence to support his validity so you can not say that is all about disbelieving a claim and similar bullshit.
This is crap.
Your argument is a total crap.        

All the evidence actually does point to consciousness being a product of a physical brain.

People can be victims of traumatic brain injuries, and their personality becomes completely different. 

If consciousness is not a product of a physical brain, please point out at least one example of a consciousness that exists, sans physical brain. 


[/quote]

(September 30, 2015 at 10:53 am)Little Rik Wrote:

(September 29, 2015 at 3:00 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: Yes, belief is the psychological state in which one accepts a premise or proposition as being true. 
The problem is (which I'm sure you will not understand, but here goes anyway), when someone disbelieves a claim, they do not necessarily believe the opposite claim by default. 
So, when we say we do not believe your claims, we do not, by default believe they are false. We just don't believe you have been able to support your claims enough to accept them as being true.
And on a side note, there are good reasons to believe something, and there are bad reasons. 
Good reasons:
Demonstrable, repeatable, falsifiable evidence. 
Valid and sound logic.
Bad reasons:
Personal experience. 
Anecdotal evidence. 
Ancient texts. 
The strengths of ones beliefs should be proportional to the strength of the evidence. The type of evidence that you provide is low strength.

You go round and around in circle saying so many things that mean absolutely nothing.
When you guys say........THE CONSCIOUSNESS IS A PRODUCT OF THE BRAIN, you state or make a claim but this claim doesn't have any evidence to support his validity so you can not say that is all about disbelieving a claim and similar bullshit.
This is crap.
Your argument is a total crap.        

Ok, would you like to have someone completely shut down your brain so we can see if you're still conscious after that? If you're confident about your position, then you should be ok with that.

(September 30, 2015 at 2:13 pm)Irrational Wrote:

(September 30, 2015 at 10:53 am)Little Rik Wrote: You go round and around in circle saying so many things that mean absolutely nothing.
When you guys say........THE CONSCIOUSNESS IS A PRODUCT OF THE BRAIN, you state or make a claim but this claim doesn't have any evidence to support his validity so you can not say that is all about disbelieving a claim and similar bullshit.
This is crap.
Your argument is a total crap.        

Ok, would you like to have someone completely shut down your brain so we can see if you're still conscious after that? If you're confident about your position, then you should be ok with that.

Or explain why people born without brains (anancephalic) have no consciousnesses?



I think this needs to be emphasized to Little Rik as often as possible, but here it is again:

Why is it every time, without fail, we see evidence of consciousness, it is associated with a physical brain. 

And, as of yet, no one has ever been able to provide demonstrable evidence of  consciousness that exists without a physical brain.

I'm too lazy to read all the posts so I'll just give my 1.5 cents (i'm too poor to give all 2 cents)

plainly this.

The religious TELL us to believe. We say show us evidence. They say here it is. Then we look and say that's not clear evidence by any stretch of the imagination. The scientific method agrees way more with us than them.
remember lack of evidence is not confirmation and the burden of proof is always on the one who asserts the idea.
We did not assert the idea that there isn't a god just that their is no proof for one/or more.

Then the religious do EVERYTHING in their power to convince us that we should follow their religion.

WHY?

It is always a hard road for an atheist to remain on this narrow track of being open to possibilities and at the same time remaining true to fact.

As always the religious will use this open mind to drive a wedge just so they can "save" another soul.

That they have to drive out all doubt around them shows that they are insecure about their faith.