(October 13, 2015 at 8:25 am)ApeNotKillApe Wrote: I am an atheist, and I say God exists. I remain an atheist before, during and after making that statement. I do not believe in God, I say God exists.
I cannot believe in God and claim to be an atheist, I cannot be an atheist and claim to believe in God. 

When I, as an atheist, state that God exists, my statement is dishonest, and God does not approve of dishonesty.

When I, as an atheist, tell you that God exists, am I committing a sinful action? If so, why? If not, why not?

You cannot make the statement "God exists" and call yourself an atheist.  The label contradicts the statement.  The moment you say God exists, you are a deist.  When you start identifying that God or making equivocations about the nature of this God, you are a theist.  Based on your statement that God disapproves of dishonesty, to me means you are a theist.

(October 13, 2015 at 9:51 am)lkingpinl Wrote:

(October 13, 2015 at 8:25 am)ApeNotKillApe Wrote: I am an atheist, and I say God exists. I remain an atheist before, during and after making that statement. I do not believe in God, I say God exists.
I cannot believe in God and claim to be an atheist, I cannot be an atheist and claim to believe in God. 

When I, as an atheist, state that God exists, my statement is dishonest, and God does not approve of dishonesty.

When I, as an atheist, tell you that God exists, am I committing a sinful action? If so, why? If not, why not?

You cannot make the statement "God exists" and call yourself an atheist.  The label contradicts the statement.  The moment you say God exists, you are a deist.  When you start identifying that God or making equivocations about the nature of this God, you are a theist.  Based on your statement that God disapproves of dishonesty, to me means you are a theist.

I'll specify: By the standards of the Judeo-Christian God, is it a sinful action to say "God exists" if I don't believe it?

(October 13, 2015 at 9:49 am)ApeNotKillApe Wrote:

(October 13, 2015 at 9:35 am)mh.brewer Wrote: The link directs me back to this thread. Not worth my time.

I am posing the question in a sub-forum titled "Christianity." I thought that would define clearly enough the God I'm referring to.

Nope. Is it the bible god? OT or NT god? Religious god? god but not of religion? Catholic god? Mormon god? All forgiving god? Bitch slap you to hell god? ................

(October 13, 2015 at 9:51 am)lkingpinl Wrote: You cannot make the statement "God exists" and call yourself an atheist.  The label contradicts the statement.  The moment you say God exists, you are a deist.  When you start identifying that God or making equivocations about the nature of this God, you are a theist.  Based on your statement that God disapproves of dishonesty, to me means you are a theist.

That's why I asked for a definition. Not all persons gods are the god I think your alluding to.

(October 13, 2015 at 9:56 am)mh.brewer Wrote:

(October 13, 2015 at 9:49 am)ApeNotKillApe Wrote: I am posing the question in a sub-forum titled "Christianity." I thought that would define clearly enough the God I'm referring to.

Nope. Is it the bible god? OT or NT god? Religious god? god but not of religion? Catholic god? Mormon god? All forgiving god? Bitch slap you to hell god? ................

The Christian God.

(October 13, 2015 at 9:54 am)ApeNotKillApe Wrote:

(October 13, 2015 at 9:51 am)lkingpinl Wrote: You cannot make the statement "God exists" and call yourself an atheist.  The label contradicts the statement.  The moment you say God exists, you are a deist.  When you start identifying that God or making equivocations about the nature of this God, you are a theist.  Based on your statement that God disapproves of dishonesty, to me means you are a theist.

I'll specify: By the standards of the Judeo-Christian God, is it a sinful action to say "God exists" if I don't believe it?

If you don't believe it why would you be concerned if it was sinful or not?  Just makes no sense to me.  

There are innumerable things not discussed in the Bible as being sinful or not.  If you want to know what it says about believing/not believing look at John 3:18

(October 13, 2015 at 10:02 am)lkingpinl Wrote:

(October 13, 2015 at 9:54 am)ApeNotKillApe Wrote: I'll specify: By the standards of the Judeo-Christian God, is it a sinful action to say "God exists" if I don't believe it?

If you don't believe it why would you be concerned if it was sinful or not?  Just makes no sense to me.  

There are innumerable things not discussed in the Bible as being sinful or not.  If you want to know what it says about believing/not believing look at John 3:18

But consider it from God's point of view, he condemns those who don't believe in him, and condemns liars. From what I understand he measures each act individually as good or sinful and keeps a tally.
So when God sees someone like me who doesn't believe in God falsely attesting to God's own existence, how does God judge it? Is it a sin because I didn't believe it when I said it? Would it be good if I did believe it when I said it? What if someone else believed me when I said it? Was I doing God's work by committing sin against God? Does God approve of breaking his own Laws?

I don't think any of this makes any sense.

(October 13, 2015 at 8:25 am)ApeNotKillApe Wrote: I am an atheist, and I say God exists.

If god actually existed, it would be delusional to be an atheist (in the same way that it's delusional to be an a-duck-ist).

Quote:I remain an atheist before, during and after making that statement. I do not believe in God, I say God exists.

Since belief follows individual conviction of the truth of a proposition, you would have to be mad or willfully ignorant to make this claim.

Quote:I cannot believe in God and claim to be an atheist, I cannot be an atheist and claim to believe in God.

 
That's correct and contradicts what you've just been saying... :bamboozled:

Quote:When I, as an atheist, state that God exists, my statement is dishonest,

It's dishonest if god doesn't exist.

I'm getting thoroughly confused now.

Quote: and God does not approve of dishonesty.

What disapproves? The god that doesn't exist or the god that does exist but you don't believe in?

Quote:When I, as an atheist, tell you that God exists, am I committing a sinful action?

Since we're talking about the Christian god, according to the bible you would be committing a sin if the lie wasn't mandated by god.

That doesn't matter if the god doesn't exist but it would matter if the god exists, even if you didn't believe in it.

Either you're just confused and need to redefine yourself and/or god or this is an attempt at the liars paradox. I don't give a shit about sin.

(October 13, 2015 at 10:09 am)ApeNotKillApe Wrote:

(October 13, 2015 at 10:02 am)lkingpinl Wrote: If you don't believe it why would you be concerned if it was sinful or not?  Just makes no sense to me.  

There are innumerable things not discussed in the Bible as being sinful or not.  If you want to know what it says about believing/not believing look at John 3:18

But consider it from God's point of view, he condemns those who don't believe in him, and condemns liars. From what I understand he measures each act individually as good or sinful and keeps a tally. So when God sees someone like me who doesn't believe in God falsely attesting to God's own existence, how does God judge it? Is it a sin because I don't believe it when I say it? Would it be good if I did believe it when I say it? What if someone else believed me when I said it? Was I doing God's work by committing sin against God? Does God approve of breaking his own Laws?

I'm not sure where you got this idea from in the Judeo-Christian worldview.  I will answer your questions based on my subjective opinion and understanding, but as my tagline says, "there is a God, and I'm not Him".

"Sin" in the judeo-christian worldview is best described as a violation of God's purpose.  The Bible says all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23).  No one can live up to His standard.  That's why the Christian talks about being saved by grace.  Believe Jesus is who he claimed to be and be saved by grace is what the Bible claims in John 3:16.  If you don't believe, I've already shown you what it says in verse 18.