I used to have thoughts that were "different." They weren't different in that they were novel, but they were in a way like yours. I couldn't doubt the content of those thoughts. They seemed to be necessary thoughts that "had to be true." They were special in a way my ordinary thoughts weren't. Unfortunately for me, those thoughts I couldn't doubt also told me that I was from a different universe, and that I needed to kill myself in order to get back to my universe. I made several attempts on my life before I finally got on medication which could help me with these thoughts (and I was a theist who believed in a god at the time [I'm a former Hindu]). Long story short, the thoughts are still there, but now they're just ordinary thoughts. I can doubt them like any other thought. I just thought I'd share my story with you because your thoughts about god seem to lack the same flexibility to doubt them that my thoughts had. If you want to believe in God, that's fine. My believing in a god before wasn't a bad part of my life. But please be wary of thoughts you cannot doubt. I don't mean to imply that you are mentally ill like I am. Just thought you might benefit from hearing my experiences.

(October 13, 2015 at 12:59 pm)Crossless1 Wrote: Esquilax wrote: "God can't shoulder the burden of proof, and so there's a certain stripe of theist who will argue that god doesn't need to be subjected to the burden of proof, because he would fail if we tried that."

Then there are those theists who will say that God can shoulder the burden of proof (and why not, since he is allegedly all-powerful) but chooses not to because unambiguous, compelling evidence of his existence would somehow violate our alleged free will. But when pressed to explain why their god prefers unfounded belief in his existence instead of knowledge, they'll toss out a few Bible verses and then change the subject as quickly as possible.

Except that, according to their own mythology, God in Jesus Form™ was perfectly willing to provide evidence to skeptics like Thomas and the apostles, after resurrection.

It's just us regular schlubs (and everyone else since Jesus vanished into orbit) who have to rely on the say-so of those apostles that they saw what they saw; God can't bother to provide proof to the rest of us.

(October 13, 2015 at 12:54 pm)jenny1972 Wrote: " And yet your religious views says "believe in god," so... "

yes because i can detect God and so i believe.

You have a godometer?  What are you doing here, then?  Shouldn't you be off collecting every prize for discovery and engineering known to man?  May I see it? Can you tell us how your godometer works, and what sorts of godstuff it's detected? How deep is your data set, btw? Did the godometer go off once, inexplicably, or does it provide consistent results in a manner subject to falsification and assessment for error? Lastly, are you sure your godometer detects gods, rather than low flying airplanes, geese, or blocks of gouda in your neighbors fridge?

(October 13, 2015 at 1:08 pm)TheRocketSurgeon Wrote:

(October 13, 2015 at 12:59 pm)Crossless1 Wrote: Then there are those theists who will say that God can shoulder the burden of proof (and why not, since he is allegedly all-powerful) but chooses not to because unambiguous, compelling evidence of his existence would somehow violate our alleged free will. But when pressed to explain why their god prefers unfounded belief in his existence instead of knowledge, they'll toss out a few Bible verses and then change the subject as quickly as possible.

Except that, according to their own mythology, God in Jesus Form™ was perfectly willing to provide evidence to skeptics like Thomas and the apostles, after resurrection.

It's just us regular schlubs (and everyone else since Jesus vanished into orbit) who have to rely on the say-so of those apostles that they saw what they saw; God can't bother to provide proof to the rest of us.

God does provide proof to many i dont base my belief on anything that any apostle says . not everyone who believes in God believes in the teachings from apostles or any other religious person . didnt you say that your girlfriend believes in God ? why does she believe ?

(October 13, 2015 at 12:47 pm)drfuzzy Wrote:

(October 13, 2015 at 12:35 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote:

So, obviously, this "god" you're describing is not the Xtian one.  The meme is anti-christian.  (not complaining)  So what's the name of this "god" and what is this "god" going to save us from?   -- Oh wait, was that Jormungandr's meme? Sorry Jor. Cool pic. So maybe they're talking about Jeebus after all.

If he comes 'round, says "hi" and starts getting rid of poverty and child abuse and rape 'n' all sorts of that stuff, and shows us how to heal some diseases, cool.  I'm on board.  Maybe.  If there aren't any strings attached, like prayer and worship and slavish devotion and hell and all of that crap.

Oh yeah, this God she's communicating with is definitely not the xtian God...

what's the name of this "God"...it's what ever you want it to be, remember jenny said she was open-minded to the possibility of this "God" even being alien http://atheistforums.org/thread-37161-po...pid1080835

and what is this God saving us from, you ask? I believe it's from all of the religions and the big thick books...not completely sure, but that's what I think

And I don't think there are any strings attached, like prayer and worship and slavish devotion and hell and all whatnot...

But I do think we have to love others as ourselves... which can be quite difficult at times, and might be concidered "slavish devotion" by some

(October 13, 2015 at 1:17 pm)Rhythm Wrote:

(October 13, 2015 at 12:54 pm)jenny1972 Wrote: " And yet your religious views says "believe in god," so... "

yes because i can detect God and so i believe.

You have a godometer?  What are you doing here, then?  Shouldn't you be off collecting every prize for discovery and engineering known to man?  May I see it?  Can you tell us how your godometer works, and what sorts of godstuff it's detected?  How deep is your data set, btw?  Did the godometer go off once, inexplicably, or does it provide consistent results in a manner subject to falsification and assessment for error?  Lastly, are you sure your godometer detects gods, rather than low flying airplanes, geese, or blocks of gouda in your neighbors fridge?

and i thought i had a good imagination

(October 13, 2015 at 1:26 pm)jenny1972 Wrote: God does provide proof to many

That's the claim..but whenever said "many" are asked to share that proof, they hold out empty hands and platitude instead.  Case in point......will you...can you, share your proof, provided to you, with us?

BTW, did you just shrivel, entirely, from you claim of detection? What the holy fuck. Is this how seriously you treat the whole god business? Did you or did you not detect a god, and what equipment did you use to accomplish this? Did I misread your statement, was it only a conjecture, have you not detected god after all?

(October 13, 2015 at 1:26 pm)jenny1972 Wrote:

(October 13, 2015 at 1:08 pm)TheRocketSurgeon Wrote: Except that, according to their own mythology, God in Jesus Form™ was perfectly willing to provide evidence to skeptics like Thomas and the apostles, after resurrection.

It's just us regular schlubs (and everyone else since Jesus vanished into orbit) who have to rely on the say-so of those apostles that they saw what they saw; God can't bother to provide proof to the rest of us.

God does provide proof to many i dont base my belief on anything that any apostle says . not everyone who believes in God believes in the teachings from apostles or any other religious person . didnt you say that your girlfriend believes in God ? why does she believe ?

I didn't mean you, Jenny. Those who follow the Jesus mythology. Including my fiancee.

I'm not quite understanding the intensity of the interrogation of Jenny's claim. She says she felt the presence of a being she interpreted as God, considered that a divine revelation to her, personally, and chooses to believe on that basis.

It doesn't strike me as a difficult concept to grasp, guys.

(October 13, 2015 at 12:54 pm)jenny1972 Wrote: " And yet your religious views says "believe in god," so... "

yes because i can detect God and so i believe.

If you can actually detect gawd, all you need to do is explain the process and demonstrate it. Show that it's testable and verifiable. Then there will be a Nobel Prize with your name engraved on the base.