The evidence simply doesn't exist.

I found all the evidence I needed when I was still an active churchgoer. I find the presumption that we refuse to look at evidence to be rather insulting.

(October 16, 2015 at 8:27 am)Evie Wrote: The evidence simply doesn't exist.

Real evidence doesn't exist. There's plenty of Christian evidence, though. They are not one and the same.

(October 16, 2015 at 6:08 am)Jaguar Wrote: There are thousands of Christian websites,that answers your every doubt.

Why can't you look for them?

There are many evidence proving God and the bible,why can't you look for them?

There are thousands of christian websites trying to make ends meet. Evidence is on a different level. You know, something as exotic as scientists testing theories and reviewing each other.

Belief isn't evidence. And makebelief isn't proof.

(October 16, 2015 at 8:34 am)Faith No More Wrote:

(October 16, 2015 at 8:27 am)Evie Wrote: The evidence simply doesn't exist.

Real evidence doesn't exist.  There's plenty of Christian evidence, though.  They are not one and the same.

So invalid evidence constitutes evidence?

If I type this sentence is that invalid evidence for the existence of gods or is it simply not evidence at all?

I thought evidence had to make something evident... besides the invalidity of the "evidence" itself.

I'm wondering, jaguar, do you think that the Messiah is the Son of David? (Mt 22:42, Mk 12:35, Lk 20:41)

Jaguar, have you ever read what David did? (Matthew 12:3, Mark 2:25, Luke 6:3)

1 Samuel 26:12 David took all that shiznit from Saul when he was takin' a nap and gat (kjv) on out of there...then there was that other time (1 Samuel 24:4)

Verse 13: David went over to the other side, and stood on top of the hill afar off; a great space being between them:

Verse 14: and David was like, hey, I got your shiznit!


And Jesus was like, those are some straight up peter pan tricks! No man can enter a strong man's house and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man, then he will spoil his house. (Mt 12:29, Mark 3:27)

(October 16, 2015 at 8:39 am)Evie Wrote: So invalid evidence constitutes evidence?

If I type this sentence is that invalid evidence for the existence of gods or is it simply not evidence at all?

I thought evidence had to make something evident... besides the invalidity of the "evidence" itself.

What makes what evident is subjective, no? Christians would argue that their experiences make god evident. That would be evidence to them.

Of course, it's not valid evidence to people that value empiricism and peer review, which is the point I was trying to make.

But there is a difference between seeming to seem and real seeming

You may think it is evident to you when really you later discover that it was never evident all along. I think you can be wrong about what is evident.

Unless your senses or your senses + certain tools or your logic actually detects something relevant - is it really evident to you or do you just think it is?

I don't think it's quite as simple as 100% subjective. I don't think a huge ton of people merely believing that something is evident to them really means it is evident to them because I don't think they see what they think they see. Or experience what they think they experience. They have illusions, hallucinations, delusions, misconceptions, etc. And I don't even think people even always believe what they think they believe. We can be wrong about our own subjectivity.

From Google define:

Evident: clearly seen or understood; obvious.

Is it genuinely clearly seen or understood? Or do they just think it is?

(October 16, 2015 at 8:22 am)Chad32 Wrote: People have been running around this bush for thousands of years. If there was real evidence, we'd see the Abrahamic religions converge into one faith. Instead all we've seen is division and war.

Amen to that, brother!

A Kingdom divided against itself cannot stand! (Mt 12:25, Mk 3:24, Lk 11:17)

(October 16, 2015 at 8:16 am)Exian Wrote:

(October 16, 2015 at 6:48 am)Alex K Wrote: Thousands shmousands! I demand tens of thousands of websites! Extraordinary claims do after all require extraordinary evidence!

I apologize, Jaguar, on behalf of our resident grumpy German physicist. I assure you that I am much more even handed. I only require 700 websites. Bring me 700 websites all agreeing with one another, and I shall consider that sufficient evidence for the existence of your God.

Again, just to be clear- 700 websites equals proof of God's existence.

Pshh, your standards are waaay too low! There are things that are completely bogus that have 700 websites!