(October 20, 2015 at 6:06 am)houseofcantor Wrote: That's usually how atheism happens.

It did in my case.

Agree with you guys ... If they truly believed in the bible and all the afterlife shit, then it should be the most important thing in the world to them!
But instead, 80% of the jails are full of Christians ... go figure... The problem is they cherry pick scripture like a true Christian and all is forgiven...

(October 20, 2015 at 5:35 am)ignoramus Wrote: Big sister Jenny snowflake!  good stuff!
Tell me one thing ...you don't believe in religion, but do you believe in the jesus and God as described exactly in the bye bull?

God is exactly how It has always been no different now than It was then . I do believe that God does influence humans and i do believe the accounts of what jesus said/did is accurate his followers were very very interested in being accurate and exact with his words as any follower would be who truely believed they were words inspired by God (and later from God directly) .

But you have to take into account the culture and the superstitions of humans during any time period and the spin they would put on any event we know how rumors work today and we are in a much much less superstitious environment so the old testament depiction of God and the stories attributed to God has to be taken in context of the culture and human nature . pictures of God is symbolic of exactly what humanity through religions has done with God , defined and attributed human characteristics and assumptions . (short answer : no)

(October 19, 2015 at 7:38 pm)jenny1972 Wrote: soooo waiting on all the christians to explain why they believe jesus was God even though its probabally just something theyve always been told and they never really questioned it because the preacher told them it was true
still come on christians come out come out wherever you are im wondering where you are getting this from

kinda wish i wouldve put this thread in 'christianity' instead of in religion

Or maybe you should post it at a Christian forum. It's pretty pathetic be condesending to Christians for not addressing a point you made on an atheist forum.

But anyway, here's a place to start:

John 14
7 “If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him.”

8 Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us.”

9 Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works. 11 Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves.

(October 20, 2015 at 11:39 am)alpha male Wrote:

(October 19, 2015 at 7:38 pm)jenny1972 Wrote: soooo waiting on all the christians to explain why they believe jesus was God even though its probabally just something theyve always been told and they never really questioned it because the preacher told them it was true
still come on christians come out come out wherever you are im wondering where you are getting this from

kinda wish i wouldve put this thread in 'christianity' instead of in religion

Or maybe you should post it at a Christian forum.    It's pretty pathetic be condesending to Christians for not addressing a point you made on an atheist forum.

But anyway, here's a place to start:

John 14
7 “If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him.”

8 Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us.”

9 Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works. 11 Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves.

Is it your contention that Jesus' self-characterizations and references to his relationship with Yahweh found in the Synoptic Gospels are essentially the same as what is found in John?

(October 20, 2015 at 7:21 am)ignoramus Wrote: Agree with you guys ... If they truly believed in the bible and all the afterlife shit, then it should be the most important thing in the world to them!
But instead, 80% of the jails are full of Christians ... go figure... The problem is they cherry pick scripture like a true Christian and all is forgiven...

i am going to post a thread about this on christian forums website i wonder what they will say about it there im just going to very politely ask where it comes from since it did not come from jesus and address the main points and verses in my OP over there

---

(October 20, 2015 at 11:39 am)alpha male Wrote:

(October 19, 2015 at 7:38 pm)jenny1972 Wrote: soooo waiting on all the christians to explain why they believe jesus was God even though its probabally just something theyve always been told and they never really questioned it because the preacher told them it was true
still come on christians come out come out wherever you are im wondering where you are getting this from

kinda wish i wouldve put this thread in 'christianity' instead of in religion

Or maybe you should post it at a Christian forum.    It's pretty pathetic be condesending to Christians for not addressing a point you made on an atheist forum.

But anyway, here's a place to start:

John 14
7 “If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him.”

8 Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us.”

9 Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works. 11 Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves.

yes i am going to start a thread on christian forums although there are christians here .....  yes jesus did have a relationship with God and was inspired by God but does distinguish that he was not God despite knowing God and despite Gods inspiration being in his mind "The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works."

(October 20, 2015 at 11:45 am)Crossless1 Wrote:

(October 20, 2015 at 11:39 am)alpha male Wrote: Or maybe you should post it at a Christian forum.    It's pretty pathetic be condesending to Christians for not addressing a point you made on an atheist forum.

But anyway, here's a place to start:

John 14
7 “If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him.”

8 Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us.”

9 Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works. 11 Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves.

Is it your contention that Jesus' self-characterizations and references to his relationship with Yahweh found in the Synoptic Gospels are essentially the same as what is found in John?

I never got that far - well, I've read the gospel of Judas, but... 

I take it as further conformation that Jesus was Paul's construct to ideally embody Holy Spirit.

(October 20, 2015 at 12:08 pm)houseofcantor Wrote:

(October 20, 2015 at 11:45 am)Crossless1 Wrote: Is it your contention that Jesus' self-characterizations and references to his relationship with Yahweh found in the Synoptic Gospels are essentially the same as what is found in John?

I never got that far - well, I've read the gospel of Judas, but... 

I take it as further conformation that Jesus was Paul's construct to ideally embody Holy Spirit.

There's Paul's Jesus; there's the Jesus of the Synoptics; and there's John's Jesus. (This is just the NT, leaving out of account the other Gospels that didn't make the cut.)
Christians conflate these different sources to arrive at their Jesus, favoring now one and now another of the sources as it suits their purposes. They feel justified in doing so because the sources they reference all have the stamp of orthodox approval and are thought to be God's word. Of course, to someone who doesn't buy into that tradition, they are indulging in bad and dishonest reading habits.

(October 20, 2015 at 11:45 am)Crossless1 Wrote: Is it your contention that Jesus' self-characterizations and references to his relationship with Yahweh found in the Synoptic Gospels are essentially the same as what is found in John?

The synoptics are just as strong on Jesus' divinity if you look into messianic prophecies. For example, you know that the messiah was supposed to be descended from David. A couple passages that this comes from are:

Isaiah 9
6 For unto us a Child is born,
Unto us a Son is given;
And the government will be upon His shoulder.
And His name will be called
Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
7 Of the increase of His government and peace
There will be no end,
Upon the throne of David and over His kingdom,
To order it and establish it with judgment and justice
From that time forward, even forever.
The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.

Jeremiah 23
“Behold, the days are coming,” says the Lord,
“That I will raise to David a Branch of righteousness;
A King shall reign and prosper,
And execute judgment and righteousness in the earth.
6 In His days Judah will be saved,
And Israel will dwell safely;
Now this is His name by which He will be called:
THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

"Lord" there is "Jehovah" in the Hebrew.

Critics who claim that the messiah was supposed to be a mere man are lying or ignorant.

(October 20, 2015 at 12:42 pm)alpha male Wrote:

(October 20, 2015 at 11:45 am)Crossless1 Wrote: Is it your contention that Jesus' self-characterizations and references to his relationship with Yahweh found in the Synoptic Gospels are essentially the same as what is found in John?

The synoptics are just as strong on Jesus' divinity if you look into messianic prophecies. For example, you know that the messiah was supposed to be descended from David. A couple passages that this comes from are:

Isaiah 9
6 For unto us a Child is born,
Unto us a Son is given;
And the government will be upon His shoulder.
And His name will be called
Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
7 Of the increase of His government and peace
There will be no end,
Upon the throne of David and over His kingdom,
To order it and establish it with judgment and justice
From that time forward, even forever.
The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.

Jeremiah 23
“Behold, the days are coming,” says the Lord,
“That I will raise to David a Branch of righteousness;
A King shall reign and prosper,
And execute judgment and righteousness in the earth.
6 In His days Judah will be saved,
And Israel will dwell safely;
Now this is His name by which He will be called:
THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

"Lord" there is "Jehovah" in the Hebrew.

Critics who claim that the messiah was supposed to be a mere man are lying or ignorant.

The Jews would like a word with you about their prophetic tradition.