Hey, I'm a christian who's simply just wondering what atheists think about the subject of morality. I'm not gonna twist ur answers and try to preach at you or anything, so please don't be defensive or anything. It's just that I have been thinking about morality, and I wonder where atheists believe that their moral values originate from?

(December 9, 2010 at 6:28 am)16three-john Wrote: Hey, I'm a christian who's simply just wondering what atheists think about the subject of morality. I'm not gonna twist ur answers and try to preach at you or anything, so please don't be defensive or anything. It's just that I have been thinking about morality, and I wonder where atheists believe that their moral values originate from?

Altruistic behavior has been observed in various animals, which makes sense from an evolutionary perspective. If you are interested in this topic, I would recommend an article which was published in a issue of Nature Magazine (30 June 2006).

Since humans are another species of animal, we are programmed to behave altruistically towards family members and friends, which was everybody in the small bands of paleolithic societies.

With the invention of agriculture and the development of more complex societies, moral systems developed to advocate altruistic behavior towards people who weren't family members and friends. Eventually developing to the "universal love" concept common to a lot of religions.

I hoped that answered your question.

What he said.

(December 9, 2010 at 6:28 am)16three-john Wrote: Hey, I'm a christian who's simply just wondering what atheists think about the subject of morality. I'm not gonna twist ur answers and try to preach at you or anything, so please don't be defensive or anything. It's just that I have been thinking about morality, and I wonder where atheists believe that their moral values originate from?

Moral subjectivism is nihilism with a crutch, the word morality makes no sense in a subjectivist context.

Moral values don't "originate", morality is an evaluation, a standard by which we judge intentional action (mechanics and mental illness are not "morally wrong" for example).

Morality is an evaluation of how our intentional behavior impacts our fellow sentient beings. It is not something that can be objectively measured, as in you can't plug numbers into a spreadsheet to determine the course of action that produces the highest number of moral units.

The closest that any philosopher has come to measuring morality objectively was Jeremy Bentham who advanced the utilitarian ethic, by which morality could be measured by the promotion of the sum total of pleasure in the universe and reduction of the sum total of pain. Even this approach requires some subjective judgment, as measuring pleasure and pain are almost subjective by nature.

A belief in God does nothing to make moral issues any less subjective. Saying "GodWillsIt" is every bit as unsatisfying an answer as to why something is moral as "GodDidIt" is unsatisfying an answer to matters of science. Such simple statements don't fully and satisfyingly answer the whys and hows. If something is moral because God says so, then morality is by God's decision and therefore still relative to God's judgment.

Saying morality is subjective is not to be confused with amorality or "anything goes". It is to admit the issue is complex and requires judgment. Personally, I live by three commandments which I feel measure morality well enough: act with integrity, respect the rights of others and take responsibility for your actions. I came by these rules by my own analysis as to why I react negatively to some things, that is thinking something is "wrong" "evil or "immoral". Typically, things I find immoral are violations of these three rules. I have yet to find any exceptions and will add more to that list if I do.

I will say, in a rare praise of Christianity, that Jesus' admonishment that we do unto others as they would to us, essentially empathizing with others, is an excellent rule. The reverse, expect not from others what we aren't willing to do for them, is also useful. Such rules touch upon the very thing that morality is an evaluation of.

If Christians would spend more time adhering to that "golden rule" and less time trying to force their beliefs on others (an ironic violation of that rule), I think we'd all get along much better.

(December 9, 2010 at 6:28 am)16three-john Wrote: Hey, I'm a christian who's simply just wondering what atheists think about the subject of morality. I'm not gonna twist ur answers and try to preach at you or anything, so please don't be defensive or anything. It's just that I have been thinking about morality, and I wonder where atheists believe that their moral values originate from?

Morality comes from Evolution. Moral traits similar to humans have been observed in apes and in other creatures so I'd say that's clear indication that evolution plays a large part. It certainly has nothing to do with religion.

(December 9, 2010 at 11:06 am)Skipper Wrote: It certainly has nothing to do with religion.

First of all, religion is certainly a pile of bullshit. Second, I'm trying to keep this sorta more towards what atheists think of morality, so slamming on religion is pretty much uncalled for, especially because this thread has nothing to do with religion.

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(December 9, 2010 at 7:16 am)ziggystardust Wrote: we are programmed to behave altruistically towards family members and friends

what exactly do you mean by 'programmed'? Like, we're born with a sort of moral understanding?

In regards to the origins of morality, most atheists I've met understand morality through naturalistic and evolutionary means, though you may meet an atheistic Buddhist or Taoist who is far more spiritual.

I believe I've already posted this before, but it does pertain to your question of morality so:





If you wanted a take on morality from an evolutionary perspective I'd recommend Richard Dawkin's The Selfish Gene. Social cohesion is vital for the survival of many species, as such morality plays an important role in surviving and thriving as well.

Quote:First of all, religion is certainly a pile of bullshit. Second, I'm trying to keep this sorta more towards what atheists think of morality, so slamming on religion is pretty much uncalled for, especially because this thread has nothing to do with religion.

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All that atheism requires is the lack of belief in god or gods. As such it has nothing to say on personal morals.

Saying that, not having a diety to blame/follow puts the onus on the individual, so atheists actions are ther own and they cannot blame the devil or god for thier actions.

Google 'god made me kill' and you can see what I mean. I got 7,730,000 hits.

(December 9, 2010 at 2:09 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: All that atheism requires is the lack of belief in god or gods. As such it has nothing to say on personal morals.

Saying that, not having a diety to blame/follow puts the onus on the individual, so atheists actions are ther own and they cannot blame the devil or god for thier actions

I'm just a bit confused by what exactly you're saying. Are you saying that atheists think morals aren't real? Or that they don't matter? Or that athiests ignore morality? I just can't tell which it is, again I'm just trying to understand