Question for Atheists

[tonyc4444]

Hello,

I'm doing research for a book I'm writing in the realm of fiction.

My question is this, when it comes to theists and Christians in particular it's easy to list those things that they hold closest to them. God, family, Country. I'm wondering if there is something similar to Atheists, I don't doubt Atheists believe family and country are important, but is there anything else that follows the same theme? Anything that you can say in general that Atheists would be distraught over losing? Would science replace God in the list that I gave?

I'll give you a bit of why I'm asking, I don't want to give to much of the premise away though till I release the book because it's actually unique. One of the themes in the book explores suicide and how the things I mentioned can drive people towards that. Loss of one or all three of those things suddenly and without warning would push people towards that end. So I'm wondering what Atheists would hold closest to them in the absence of something like God that helps ground theists. Hope I'm articulating this well enough, and thoughts you have would be appreciated.

Another poster put it well, as a group (as much as possible. I know this is difficult lol) is there anything Atheists would consider giving them Happiness and Emotional Security in the same way God does for Christians?

Tony

[FatAndFaithless]

Oof..so much wrong with that. Not least of which is that its rather presumptuous to imply that Christians in general put "country" in their pantheon of top 3 most important things to them.

"Atheists" don't have a common set of anything besides 'not believing in god'. It's irritating to see theists treat 'atheism' as some sort of club or just another religious group that has a common set of doctrines, values, and ideas. We don't. We're individuals that often hold different and conflciting beliefs, and we discuss and debate them.

Instead of asking what "Atheists" think is important, you could try asking an atheist to see what he or she holds as important.

I'm not sure if you did it intentionally or not, but implying that Science somehow assumes the slot of "God" for atheists is another tired and aggrivating trope from theists.

That being said, if I had to choose a 'top 3', it would be family, skepticism, debate.

You have several implications in your post that we've seen other theists make explicitly about atheists, though I won't be so cynical to assert you're making them equally as explicitly.

[abaris]

First, please do introduce yourself in the appropriate subforum. It's netiquette to let us know who you are.

Other than that I have no problem with answering your questions as an individual, since we are not a group. The only thing we share is the disbelief in any deity. Other than that we're individuals, who seek their own ways in life.

So here's my individual answer. Of course my family is important. The most important part of my life. Country, not so much. I consider patriotism to be one of the poisons of the 20th century which keeps us from making a united effort to better the world for everyone. And science. It's not as if science was something to believe in. It is exciting to observe it's findings, but it's not godlike as you seem to insinuate. Personally I'm highly interested in the cognitive abilities of other species. There's some really interesting research going on within the last decades.

[Thumpalumpacus]

My happiness, and emotional security, is grounded in the love of my family and friends.

I'm unsure what "losing science" even means, though. I don't worship science, so comparing it to any deity is a category error.

[tonyc4444]

Oof..so much wrong with that. Not least of which is that its rather presumptuous to imply that Christians in general put "country" in their pantheon of top 3 most important things to them.

No, I'm fairly confident in that particular assertion.

"Atheists" don't have a common set of anything besides 'not believing in god'. It's irritating to see theists treat 'atheism' as some sort of club or just another religious group that has a common set of doctrines, values, and ideas. We don't. We're individuals that often hold different and conflciting beliefs, and we discuss and debate them.

Instead of asking what "Atheists" think is important, you could try asking an atheist to see what he or she holds as important.

I'm not sure if you did it intentionally or not, but implying that Science somehow assumes the slot of "God" for atheists is another tired and aggrivating trope from theists.

That being said, if I had to choose a 'top 3', it would be family, skepticism, debate.

You have several implications in your post that we've seen other theists make explicitly about atheists, though I won't be so cynical to assert you're making them equally as explicitly.

No there was no malice of intent on my part, I'm genuinely asking so I don't misrepresent an atheists position on something within the book. I'm not an Atheist so I'd rather not just assume something about an entire group of people and would rather ask the question. There's truly no malice intended here, just serious research for myself.

I'm not sure if you did it intentionally or not, but implying that Science somehow assumes the slot of "God" for atheists is another tired and aggrivating trope from theists.

My apologies to you and anyone else I offended with the question. It's why I asked, better I offend a few people here than thousands of people when the book is released and where it's to late to be corrected.

That being said, if I had to choose a 'top 3', it would be family, skepticism, debate.

I appreciate the effort here, debate and skepticism is a little more intangible from what I'm looking for. As an example, if a Christian were to learn tomorrow without a shadow of a doubt that God didn't exist, or their entire family died, or the country were to fall apart then suicide while not a guarantee would become a possibility. I'm not sure a person can lose the ability to be skeptical, debating maybe if they lost their ability to speak I suppose. Anyway, thank you.

[watchamadoodle]

Both atheists and theists have faith in science, and it is unrealistic to imagine losing faith in science in the same way that a person could lose faith in God. So I don't think science makes your list.

I would imagine that suicide is usually a result of mental illness instead of beliefs or physical circumstances. Of course there are always exceptions.

[robvalue]

As FAF said, there is no consensus. There's no guarantee any two atheists would agree on anything past the lack of a belief in gods.

What would I be distraught over losing? My wife, my pets, my friends. I try to help humans and animals as far as I can, and to reduce suffering. I try to help any cause which promotes this.

To me God is a fairy tale so I have no need to replace it with anything. I am very concerned about the harm religion is causing and I'm trying to do my bit to fight that and to support fellow atheists.

I'm not sure what else to say. I believe in secular governments, and I am a sceptic.

[Brian37]

You have atheists who do try to set up groups and make lists of what they find to be a good code. I am not one of those atheists. My "code" is to human rights and non violence, not clubs. Blind loyalty to anyone or anything can set any label up to be dogmatic, and that point it will become a religion.

"Atheist" merely means "off" on one claim. "off" or "lack off" or "empty" on claims of gods or a god. It is not a religion. It is not a moral code. It is not political party. It is not a loyalty oath.

I know atheists who own guns, I hate guns. I know atheists who like Ayn Rand "fuck you I got mine" economic views along with the likes of Catholic Paul Ryan. I know other atheists who stupidly think you should, as if you could, rid a planet of 7 billion of private business and value the likes of Che who lead to Cuba. I know other atheists who buy conspiracy crap like 9/11 and JFK.

Our species ability to be cruel or compassion is in our evolution, not in the labels we assign ourselves or others. My only "code" is to my species and part of that is knowing I am an individual first and foremost.

I personally as an atheist value western secularism, because it forces everyone to keep it civil. I personally lean economic left and socially left. I do have a problem however with my friends both theist and atheist who are socially liberal who want to use censorship to keep the peace. I am no fan of using "never" as a blanket solution. If we are to live in the west and be open about it, part of that is the ability go bitch and blaspheme others.

"Atheist" is a position, nothing more. It says nothing about our individual education levels. It says nothing about our economic views or political likes. Our only core position is "off". Outside that we do not always agree on every issue 100% of the time.

[Crossless2.0]

My question is this, when it comes to theists and Christians in particular it's easy to list those things that they hold closest to them. God, family, Country.

Strange that you did not include what seems to be the main motivation for being Christian: Me, me, me . . . my salvation -- me!

I'm wondering if there is something similar to Atheists, I don't doubt Atheists believe family and country are important, but is there anything else that follows the same theme? Anything that you can say in general that Atheists would be distraught over losing?

My loved ones, inevitable though it is. And my reason/mind.

Would science replace God in the list that I gave?

Of course not. One is a highly effective method and set of tools for learning about the world -- no faith in the sense of belief without evidence required. The other is an ineffective, imaginary crutch (and, to judge from the Bible, an incredible tool) that is as real as Tinker Bell.

So I'm wondering what Atheists would hold closest to them in the absence of something like God that helps ground theists.

You think theists are grounded? Really?

[tonyc4444]

First, please do introduce yourself in the appropriate subforum. It's netiquette to let us know who you are.

Other than that I have no problem with answering your questions as an individual, since we are not a group. The only thing we share is the disbelief in any deity. Other than that we're individuals, who seek their own ways in life.

Thank you

So here's my individual answer. Of course my family is important. The most important part of my life. Country, not so much. I consider patriotism to be one of the poisons of the 20th century which keeps us from making a united effort to better the world for everyone. And science. It's not as if science was something to believe in. It is exciting to observe it's findings, but it's not godlike as you seem to insinuate.

Sorry if I articulated it incorrectly, I didn't mean to insinuate that science was "Godlike," in some areas though wouldn't you say there has to be a certain level of faith that the process is being adhered to? What I mean is, there have been plenty of Scientists who fabricate results to reach a particular end. In most cases, thanks to the scientific method their found out, but in a work of fiction it would be easy to mess with and my thoughts were more along those lines.

Like let's say for instance we found out that Einstein was a fraud who paid people to back his research, or that Stephen Hawking was a hack. Or better yet, picture yourself living back hundreds of years ago when the debate over whether or not the Earth was flat was raging and all those normal people woke up one day to find out they had been duped for a long time and the Earth was actually round. Would any of this be detrimental to you? Would it really have any effect on your daily life? Do you think it would cause any amount of depression, even if just a small amount?

Personally I'm highly interested in the cognitive abilities of other species. There's some really interesting research going on within the last decades.

Oh me too, highly fascinating stuff. Thank you for your help.

---

My happiness, and emotional security, is grounded in the love of my family and friends.

I'm unsure what "losing science" even means, though. I don't worship science, so comparing it to any deity is a category error.

Oh that was a wonderful way of putting it. "Happiness and Emotional Security" is precisely what I'm looking for. Thank you for that I'll update the OP if I can.