Explain how logic can lead to faith in a god.

@ EvF
I agree there is no reason you should respect anyone's faith. I don't agree that any old deity you could dream up could deserve equal respect. The dragon in my garage, the pink unicorn, the celestial teapot, are all nonsense creations, proving some serious points, but none the less totally pointless outside their raison d'être.

I agree that there are some ignorant views about faith. I'd suggest we all suffer the consequences of that, faithful and faithless.

Additionally I respect anyones beliefs, or non beliefs.

(March 3, 2009 at 3:30 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: I don't agree that any old deity you could dream up could deserve equal respect.

Why? What is it about one deity that makes it more deserving of respect than any other?

(March 3, 2009 at 3:22 pm)Even Adam Wrote: Explain how logic can lead to faith in a god.

OK I'll try

You're presented with rational ideas that lead you to a point where you agree with the concept. Only when you have an overwhelming amount of supporting ideas would you make the switch from non faith to faith.

In my personal experience this is how it always happens. No ghosts, trickery, brainwashing, superstition or irrational acceptance. It's always a purely rational process. Not saying the bad stuff doesn't exist, of course it does. That isn't something I'd have anything to do with.

The way I understand faith it's more about emotion than logic though?

And of course you can wish that certain things were true despite the fact there's no evidence.

And you can wish that things WEREN'T true, but if the evidence is there, ignoring it because it goes against your "faith" I don't think would be a logical choice.

I just understand faith as belief without evidence. So how is faith logical? What do you do if your faith doesn't fit with the evidence so you are out of touch with reality?

And when you have no supporting reasons faith is added because there's no evidence so you settle for just "having faith". So the reason to have faith in God is because having faith is God is a good reason?

Seems circular to me. If its not circular then what are these supporting reasons exactly if it's not faith supporting itself (i.e, circular logic)? Is it evidence? I doubt they'd count as evidence. For if they did then you wouldn't need faith because faith is belief without evidence!

(March 3, 2009 at 3:34 pm)Even Adam Wrote:

(March 3, 2009 at 3:30 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: I don't agree that any old deity you could dream up could deserve equal respect.

Why? What is it about one deity that makes it more deserving of respect than any other?

Did I say that! ..sorry - I was referring to the succeeding list. Of course any deity would stand on it's merits.

(March 3, 2009 at 3:45 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: You're presented with rational ideas

Rational ideas to do with the big man in the sky?

(March 3, 2009 at 3:30 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: @ EvF
I agree there is no reason you should respect anyone's faith. I don't agree that any old deity you could dream up could deserve equal respect. The dragon in my garage, the pink unicorn, the celestial teapot, are all nonsense creations, proving some serious points, but none the less totally pointless outside their raison d'être.

I agree that there are some ignorant views about faith. I'd suggest we all suffer the consequences of that, faithful and faithless.

Additionally I respect anyones beliefs, or non beliefs.

It's becoming socially unacceptable to say that one doesn't respect someone's belief, but I fail to see why. I don't respect any religious belief, and that is a fact. The are many religious people that I respect, and I think that an attitude of respect should be anyone's default position toward people. Beliefs on the other hand are not people, and I fail to see why any of them is deserving of respect.

What does it mean to respect a belief, in any case? What do I do to express my respect for Christian belief, for example? Find a statue of the Virgin Mary and go genuflect?

I am happy to accept that the Pope in Rome, among others, does not respect my atheist belief (which is not, however, a religious belief). But he should not expect me to respect his Roman Catholic belief. And I don't.

@ EvF

Emotion is involved, sure. I couldn't deny it. And that it can convict to cement opinions, which is of course potentially very dangerous. Logic is paramount in importance always IMHO.

Can you give an example of something I'd have to ignore because of faith?

EvF Wrote:I just understand faith as belief without evidence. So how is faith logical? What do you do if your faith doesn't fit with the evidence so you are out of touch with reality?

FIXED

Faith doesn't work with evidence. Faith has to be without evidence. Faith doesn't require me to be out of touch with reality.

---

(March 3, 2009 at 3:47 pm)Even Adam Wrote:

(March 3, 2009 at 3:45 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: You're presented with rational ideas

Rational ideas to do with the big man in the sky?

Almost exclusively with ideas about yourself and your experience with reality.

---

(March 3, 2009 at 3:51 pm)Mark Wrote: It's becoming socially unacceptable to say that one doesn't respect someone's belief, but I fail to see why. I don't respect any religious belief, and that is a fact. The are many religious people that I respect, and I think that an attitude of respect should be anyone's default position toward people. Beliefs on the other hand are not people, and I fail to see why any of them is deserving of respect.

What does it mean to respect a belief, in any case? What do I do to express my respect for Christian belief, for example? Find a statue of the Virgin Mary and go genuflect?

I am happy to accept that the Pope in Rome, among others, does not respect my atheist belief (which is not, however, a religious belief). But he should not expect me to respect his Roman Catholic belief. And I don't.

Nice one. Nailed

How do you show respect to any faith? They don't deserve any respect.

I respect the Pope as I respect other people in position. I don't respect his faith much and am opposed to most things he says. I don't have enough respect for ordinary people.

(March 3, 2009 at 3:59 pm)fr0d0 Wrote:

(March 3, 2009 at 3:47 pm)Even Adam Wrote:

(March 3, 2009 at 3:45 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: You're presented with rational ideas

Rational ideas to do with the big man in the sky?

Almost exclusively with ideas about yourself and your experience with reality.

How does a god enter these ideas while allowing them to stay 'rational'?