Little Rik The Confused On Wrote:Has already been established that consciousness is not something physical as our physical senses can not grasp it

Complete non-sequitur. Does not follow at all. If our physical senses cannot grasp something that in no way means it is not physical.

Ever heard of atoms? Our "physical senses" (as if there're any other kind of senses) can't grasp atoms and atoms are 100% physical.

There has never been any evidence of anything non-physical... all mental activity that there is actual evidence of is evidenced to be made of physical parts like everything else. There is no reason to believe whatsoever that consciousness isn't merely parts of brain activity.

Science deals with the physical world.

There is no evidence of anything other than the mental activity of the physical brain when it comes to consciousness. So from our first person perspective, the fact that one thing we can be absolutely certain of is our own consciousness: Why would you special plead and presume that there must also be something non-physical and undetectable by science in order for us to be conscious of anything?

Occam's Razor deals with this. There is no need whatsoever to postulate any non-physical requirement for consciousness in addition to the physical parts of the brain.

(November 2, 2015 at 2:19 pm)paulpablo Wrote:

(November 2, 2015 at 10:20 am)Little Rik Wrote: Your problem Pablo is that you presume that vibrations must only be part of the physical reality.
Who said that?
Consciousness is not a physical reality but why should it be prevented from having vibrations?
My consciousness is different from yours and our consciousness are also different from anyone else and if a God exist must also be different from his-her one.
How would you think it would make sense to perceive these types of consciousness other than through
waves of vibrations?
You never thought about it Pablo, did you?  

You mean 
our consciousness IS also different from anyone elseS and if god existS than god's consciousness must also be different.

I don't understand what the next part means so I can't begin to correct the English mistakes within the statement.

How would I think it would make sense to perceive these types of consciousness other than through waves of vibrations?  No I can't make sense of that question, try and explain it more clearly.

We each have our own vibrations, and vibrate at our own rate.
- Vibrations vary in intensity within each person and from person to person, depending upon the experiences being manifested.
- We are attuned to our own vibrations - this attunement is acted upon or varied by the forces surrounding or within us.
- It would seem that vibrations act as a cohesive agent in all nature - holding things together - as all force is vibration.

http://altered-states.net/barry/newsletter463/

What you're failing to realize is that you can actually be "shown" consciousness, Rik. It is possible through machines to observe the electrical signals firing. It's possible to cut open a brain, observe the structures, and put the nerves under a microscope. It is possible to open up a human brain and show you "where," for instance, your memories are, or "where" in your brain the laws of logic are stored and used (or not).


In much the same way, it would be theoretically possible to open up a computer and show you the circuitry where your game of Tetris is "happening" while you play it. Consciousness is not abstract in the same way computer data is not abstract. It is a physical phenomenon, stored and used by physical things.

(November 4, 2015 at 10:17 am)Evie Wrote:

Little Rik The Confused One Wrote:Has already been established that consciousness is not something physical as our physical senses can not grasp it

Complete non-sequitur. Does not follow at all. If our physical senses cannot grasp something that in no way means it is not physical.

Ever heard of atoms? Our "physical senses" (as if there're any other kind of senses) can't grasp atoms and atoms are 100% physical.

There has never been any evidence of anything non-physical... all mental activity that there is actual evidence of is evidenced to be made of physical parts like everything else. There is no reason to believe whatsoever that consciousness isn't merely parts of brain activity.

Science deals with the physical world.

There is no evidence of anything other than the mental activity of the physical brain when it comes to consciousness. So from our first person perspective, the fact that one thing we can be absolutely certain of is our own consciousness: Why would you special plead and presume that there must also be something non-physical and undetectable by science in order for us to be conscious of anything?

Occam's Razor deals with this. There is no need whatsoever to postulate any non-physical requirement for consciousness in addition to the physical parts of the brain.

That is not true.
NDEs have shown that with the brain out of the question the consciousness is still active so your guessing is dead wrong.  

(November 4, 2015 at 10:22 am)Little Rik Wrote: We each have our own vibrations, and vibrate at our own rate. 

That's true. That's what the selector switch is for:

(November 4, 2015 at 10:32 am)Little Rik Wrote: That is not true.
NDEs have shown that with the brain out of the question the consciousness is still active so your guessing is dead wrong.  

I think you meant near-dead wrong.

(November 4, 2015 at 10:32 am)Little Rik Wrote: That is not true.
NDEs have shown that with the brain out of the question the consciousness is still active so your guessing is dead wrong.  

NDEs are not science numbnuts.

(November 4, 2015 at 10:24 am)Redbeard The Pink Wrote: What you're failing to realize is that you can actually be "shown" consciousness, Rik. It is possible through machines to observe the electrical signals firing. It's possible to cut open a brain, observe the structures, and put the nerves under a microscope. It is possible to open up a human brain and show you "where," for instance, your memories are, or "where" in your brain the laws of logic are stored and used (or not).


In much the same way, it would be theoretically possible to open up a computer and show you the circuitry where your game of Tetris is "happening" while you play it. Consciousness is not abstract in the same way computer data is not abstract. It is a physical phenomenon, stored and used by physical things.

That is a load of garbage Pinky.
You can see all the things that you describe but you can not see the Boss.
Who's the Boss?
The Boss is the one who decide to start the action to think or to do something.
You can open a car.
You can see the energy as fuel or stored in the battery.
You can see so many things but until the driver decide to start the car nothing really happen.
You are confusing the physical side with the entity that is in charge.  

(November 4, 2015 at 10:36 am)Evie Wrote:

(November 4, 2015 at 10:32 am)Little Rik Wrote: That is not true.
NDEs have shown that with the brain out of the question the consciousness is still active so your guessing is dead wrong.  

NDEs are not science numbnuts.

Oh, sure.
Science is everything.
It can even show us how to find permanent peace of mind which is what human beings are after all the time.
Can it?
Are we sure?
Are you sure Evie?  

(November 4, 2015 at 9:05 am)Little Rik Wrote: That is how the system works Cat.
If you want to find gold or oil or anything of great value you got to go way out your normal way.

Unless you're a professional gold miner or a prospector - in which case you go about your normal way...

(November 4, 2015 at 9:05 am)Little Rik Wrote: If also you want to get a degree you got to struggle and fight a lot.

LOL... How the hell would YOU know? Did you see university in a movie? Was it about Harry Potter? Because I must disappoint you - you don't have to ride a broom, or battle magical monsters, in order to obtain a degree. What you mainly need to do is learn...

(November 4, 2015 at 9:05 am)Little Rik Wrote: God to me and to a lot of other smart people [...]

(emphasis added by me)


LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL...

Dammit, man - I could have choked to death... You need to warn people before you drop a bomb like that.
Or did you mean to say "smarmy people"?

(November 4, 2015 at 9:05 am)Little Rik Wrote: God to me and to a lot of other smart people is a lot higher than gold and any material or physical things so to get to God you got to do extra ordinary things like engaging in extrasensory perception. If this to you means to be f...ed in the head i am afraid that you haven't so far understood how life and progress work therefore it is you that is in that terrible state not the believers.  

Yeah... No - you're just f***ed in the head.

You have so far failed to prove, that there is such a thing as "extrasensory perception" - or even to define it, for that matter. And I suspect you won't do any of those things, because your "extrasensory perception" is made up.