Quote:Like I keep telling CL, awareness or belief that one is killing their own baby doesn't stop them from doing it.

They know that all they have to do is tell pappy jesus they are "sorry" and pappy jesus....schmuck that he is....always says "that's fine."

(December 2, 2015 at 12:39 pm)Clueless Morgan Wrote:

(December 1, 2015 at 9:11 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Wow guys. I was NOT talking about sex/rape at alllll.  

I know you weren't, I was restating your argument in that way to show why one should not depend on the naturalistic fallacy as justification for one's position.  I was not intending to insinuate that you somehow supported or condoned rape, I know you don't. I was intending to show how that kind of argument (using the naturalistic fallacy), with only a few changes of words, can be used to justify both what people consider a moral position or behavior (a pro-life stance) and what people consider an immoral position or behavior (something like rape) in the same way I used it before (see the post with the Mr. Bean pic).

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I've already PM'd Cathy but I wanted to let anyone who might be expecting a response from me know that I need to stop posting in this thread (personal reasons).  I'm sorry if you were hoping I'd respond, under other circumstances I would have stayed, but I really need to not participate in this thread anymore.

Ah, I see what you're saying. I don't agree that you can compare a fetus with a rapist, and conception with rape, though. Like I said in that post, it's not like a big bad baby forces his way into your body without permission lol. It's not his fault if he get's conceived there and it's not like he has a chance to ask for permission (that's just how conception works, that's the natural order of human reproduction). The same cannot be said about a rapist.

(December 2, 2015 at 12:49 pm)The_Empress Wrote:

(December 2, 2015 at 10:11 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: It would be hard at first, I won't deny that. And I don't envy any woman who gets raped and finds herself pregnant. Thank goodness it's rare, especially if she takes the morning after pill. But I still stand that the law should protect the right to life of all humans, which like Tib said, trumps all other rights. Of course, she'd get all the help she needs, including counseling and all medical bills paid for and an easy adoption process assuming she chooses not to keep the baby. Ideally, our culture would eventually become one that saw the unborn as human beings and abortions wouldn't even be wanted by the majority of people who otherwise would. 

I am familiar with a lady who was conceived by rape. I don't know her personally but met her in a pro life facebook group and exchanged several PMs. She's a lovely lady, married with 3 children, and does a lot of charity type work to help the poor children in Uganda. Rape is horrible. But any person who comes from it is an innocent bystander and can grow up to become the best of people if we only see them worthy of that chance.

And I know someone who was a product of rape who ended up in jail again and again and again for a variety of things: he beats people up, he steals, he tried to take on a bank, murder... RAPE.

I understand there are people in both camps just like with everything else. But my point was to give them a chance and not just assume they will be bad people and give them a death sentence for it.

(December 2, 2015 at 8:31 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(December 2, 2015 at 12:49 pm)The_Empress Wrote: And I know someone who was a product of rape who ended up in jail again and again and again for a variety of things: he beats people up, he steals, he tried to take on a bank, murder... RAPE.

I understand there are people in both camps just like with everything else. But my point was to give them a chance and not just assume they will be bad people and give them a death sentence for it.

That fetuses can grow up to be good was your point; I was just expanding on it. Who gives a fetus a "death sentence" because they assume it will grow up to be bad? No one said that.

(December 2, 2015 at 8:08 pm)Minimalist Wrote:

Quote:Like I keep telling CL, awareness or belief that one is killing their own baby doesn't stop them from doing it.

They know that all they have to do is tell pappy jesus they are "sorry" and pappy jesus....schmuck that he is....always says "that's fine."

I don't think that is true.  They are not more likely to abort, just not less either.  It appears that religiosity has 0 effect on whether women get abortions or not.  
Belief in sanctity of life just matters for shit, I guess, when it is your own body bearing an unwanted fetus/zygote/baby.

They are a lot less likely to admit it to friends and relatives, though, and also more likely to suffer depression, shame, and even suicide.  Which I find extremely sad.

Fair enough, Emp. I thought you were trying to insinuate that they can be bad people therefore it's not worth protecting their life.

(December 2, 2015 at 8:38 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Fair enough, Emp. I thought you were trying to insinuate that they can be bad people therefore it's not worth protecting their life.

No. I would never say that. I may come off as insensitive, but I can assure you I'm not.

(December 2, 2015 at 8:31 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(December 2, 2015 at 12:49 pm)The_Empress Wrote: And I know someone who was a product of rape who ended up in jail again and again and again for a variety of things: he beats people up, he steals, he tried to take on a bank, murder... RAPE.

I understand there are people in both camps just like with everything else. But my point was to give them a chance and not just assume they will be bad people and give them a death sentence for it.

Good news! YOU don't have to! It isn't -or at least should't- be your call, unless it's in your womb.

Okay, let's say next year Mike Huckabee wins the election and some horrible tragedy (probably caused by gawd!) kills every member of the Supreme Court except Antonin Scalia, and Hucakbee inserts his own justices who overturn Roe V. Wade.

Abortion is outlawed, and miraculously there are no back room abortion clinics where unsafe procedures are performed. Those women now give up their babies instead of aborting their fetuses.

How many unwanted children are the "pro-lifers" willing to take in themselves? Especially considering that the number of unwanted children will increase exponentially.

Quote: I don't think that is true.

Oh, I do.  "Jesus" is a handy get-out-of-sin free card.  Xtian hypocrisy is legendary.