(December 18, 2015 at 6:59 pm)God of Mr. Hanky Wrote:

(December 18, 2015 at 6:30 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: All child-rearing is a form of programming. Parents should indeed program values -- it's part of the job.

Child-rearing is not programming - it is teaching, and the difference is important! More important is that it is (or should always be) teaching with love, and if you love your own children then you will love them regardless of the values which they decide on for themselves. Child-rearing is helping children discover their own values, while helping them learn best how to live by them.

How many children do you have? How many have you raised from newborn? Values aren't instinctive, they're instilled. Arguing otherwise is ignoring nurture and exalting nature. No one is born thinking killing is wrong, I don't think.

And you can lecture me about how I should love my son when you demonstrate to me your fitness for doing so. You don't know him or me. Until then, you can shut yer piehole.

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(December 18, 2015 at 7:09 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: How many children do you have? How many have you raised from newborn? Values aren't instinctive, they're instilled. Arguing otherwise is ignoring nurture and exalting nature. No one is born thinking killing is wrong, I don't think.

And you can lecture me about how I should love my son when you demonstrate to me your fitness for doing so. You don't know him or me. Until then, you can shut yer piehole.

Fallacy Alert!!! If not A, then B.

Values are learned through experience, which parents cannot (nor should they ever) completely dominate.

I do find it disturbing how some parents treat their chldren as if they were posessions, and not the social responsibility which they are.

If you are trying to "instill" atheism in your son rather than allowing him to make that choice for himself, then you are no better than any religious asshole. If that's the case, then we have no more to say.

(December 18, 2015 at 10:38 pm)God of Mr. Hanky Wrote:

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(December 18, 2015 at 7:09 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: How many children do you have? How many have you raised from newborn? Values aren't instinctive, they're instilled. Arguing otherwise is ignoring nurture and exalting nature. No one is born thinking killing is wrong, I don't think.

And you can lecture me about how I should love my son when you demonstrate to me your fitness for doing so. You don't know him or me. Until then, you can shut yer piehole.

Fallacy Alert!!! If not A, then B.

Values are learned through experience, which parents cannot (nor should they ever) completely dominate.

I do find it disturbing how some parents treat their chldren as if they were posessions, and not the social responsibility which they are.

If you are trying to "instill" atheism in your son rather than allowing him to make that choice for himself, then you are no better than any religious asshole. If that's the case, then we have no more to say.

I'd suggest you learn how to read, asshole:

Thump Wrote:I didn't program him what to think. I taught him reasoning and let him program himself.

I wrote that just a few posts ago. Had you not been so busy stroking your ego pointing out "fallacies" that hadn't even been committed, you would have seen that.

But hey, "I'm right and you're wrong!" is a good sop to a sagging ego.

I notice you didn't answer my questions. Please do so now, or fuck off. Idiot.

Speaking of indoctrination, I find it revolting when a parent refers to their young child (or even baby) as "a Muslim" or "a catholic" or whatever. They clearly won't even be able to understand the concepts involved, so they literally can't believe it. Especially if they've just been born and they don't know anything at all yet.

The problem with teaching religion to a child (or anyone) is that it can't be done alongside teaching them how to think properly or distinguish reality from fiction. So I guess this is why parents want to get it all in there before the child is capable of telling the difference, and then start teaching them how to think afterwards. I wonder if the parents worry that if they let their child get too old and get some life experience and thinking skills first, then they will laugh at the mention of the religion.

(December 19, 2015 at 8:13 am)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:

(December 18, 2015 at 10:38 pm)God of Mr. Hanky Wrote:

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Fallacy Alert!!! If not A, then B.

Values are learned through experience, which parents cannot (nor should they ever) completely dominate.

I do find it disturbing how some parents treat their chldren as if they were posessions, and not the social responsibility which they are.

If you are trying to "instill" atheism in your son rather than allowing him to make that choice for himself, then you are no better than any religious asshole. If that's the case, then we have no more to say.

I'd suggest you learn how to read, asshole:

Thump Wrote:I didn't program him what to think. I taught him reasoning and let him program himself.

I wrote that just a few posts ago.  Had you not been so busy stroking your ego pointing out "fallacies" that hadn't even been committed, you would have seen that.

But hey, "I'm right and you're wrong!" is a good sop to a sagging ego.

I notice you didn't answer my questions. Please do so now, or fuck off. Idiot.

Oh, so now I'm the asshole? Oh, puh-leeeeeze! If you can't express yourself unmistakably in English, and that isn't my problem.

If you teach your children how to think for themselves, then good for them and bravo for you, but I think you misrepresent yourself by calling that "instill values". Perhaps values to you are teaching children how to think that way, which I have to agree on, and it is a problem how so many parents have a problem with this. But I see it as a survival tool, not really a "value" - maybe so because theists tend to distort that word for their own purpose.

I don't even remember precisely what you initially attacked me for, and I no longer care - you probably misunderstood me as much as I have you.

BUT...

IF you are going to hold the position:

Quote:I notice you didn't answer my questions. Please do so now, or fuck off. Idiot.

then you can go fuck yourself on the White House fence! Whether or not I have any children is none of your business, nor is it of any relevance to my position as one who survived a miserable childhood at the hands of theists, fuck you oh so very much! I'm making it my business how others raise their kids today because they have no right to treat them as their personal possessions - when they are done doing their work on them and they are released into society, I'm the one who will have to share it with them. Not that I don't have less than the deepest empathy for the children of harmfully overbearing parents, when that's the case!

I expressed myself clearly, you clearly missed or ignored it, and lack the strength of character to admit error.

It's all good. I've taken my measure of you.

And yes, you're the asshole here.

(December 20, 2015 at 12:39 am)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: I expressed myself clearly, you clearly missed or ignored it, and lack the strength of character to admit error.

It's all good. I've taken my measure of you.

And yes, you're the asshole here.

Of all the atheists here, you are that one which I have been chronically least impressed by. It's not like I can't be contentious and humorless sometimes, but you are just plain dull!

Pretty sure the elephant in The Room was Lisa.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rriwmsx6N6M

(December 20, 2015 at 2:18 am)God of Mr. Hanky Wrote:

(December 20, 2015 at 12:39 am)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: I expressed myself clearly, you clearly missed or ignored it, and lack the strength of character to admit error.

It's all good. I've taken my measure of you.

And yes, you're the asshole here.

Of all the atheists here, you are that one which I have been chronically least impressed by. It's not like I can't be contentious and humorless sometimes, but you are just plain dull!

Well, golly. That really hurts. All this time I've strove to impress and entertain you.

Oh, wait -- IDGAF about your opinion of me.

I will say this: you're very aptly named, Mr Hanky ... all you do is shitpost. You're brittle of mind and soft of skull. You can't even see CL's obvious trolling as it happens; you have to have it explained to you; and when you're caught out, you dissimulate rather than own your obvious error.

Dumbfuck.

I know that "teaching" children about things like hell can easily be psychologically damaging, even in the long term. I consider it as harmful as psychological child abuse.

If you're expecting young children to accept "facts" uncritically, they should be things that they really need to know for their own safety but which they can't fully comprehend yet. They should be things that they later will be able to comprehend, and to understand why you expected them to take your word.

If your religious beliefs are so messed up that you think a child is in danger of chalking up enough "sin" before the age of reason to be bound for hell with no hope of redemption, then I think you're a dangerous person and I wouldn't be comfortable with children being in your care.

If you must impress your religious beliefs as fact upon your children, at least do it at a suitable age for their benefit and not as a cheap parenting shortcut.

I challenge religious parents to own their beliefs when talking to children. "I believe that..." rather than "It is a fact that..." If you're not prepared for a child to ask you "Why do you believe that mummy/daddy?" then maybe that tells you something about your beliefs.