Sheep don't think at all.

Indeed, Min, when it comes to fundie xtianity, sheep are PUNISHED for thinking.  Drippy is a poster-boy for sheeple.

Lol.

Joke thread. 5/10.

(December 21, 2015 at 11:17 am)Cato Wrote:

(December 21, 2015 at 10:52 am)Drich Wrote: Again time line aside the evidence for Everything is there. Even a Egyptian record of the plagues

You don't understand the argument being presented in the film. None of the evidence, as used, is meaningful unless the chronology is shifted; it is central to the argument and cannot be set aside as you would like.

No I totally get it the film. Chronology is not the issue (The order in which things occured, again the evidence supports the biblical chronology completely) The time line is the issue. The time line being when these events where to take place and under which dynasty. Those details are irrelevent because the bible does not lock the exodus onto Ramses the Great or any other pharaoh/dynasty.. Nor does it mention which pharaoh took the Jews in initially. so without these two book ends your time line becomes meaningless. we then look for chronology meaning the recorded history of the egyptians to identify a series of events that coincide with scripture, and low and behold we found it in what you all would identify as Egypt's middle kingdom. or rather the reason for the end of the middle kingdom.

What this film does is match chronology found in egypt's recorded history, and what was found in dig site after dig site.. (Did I mention they found Joseph's House and out back a tomb (mini prymid with a statue of him he had red hair, and a semitic/Bedouin robe made of many different colors.) and along side it 12 other semitic tombs? (12 tribes of israel/His 12 brothers) all in a place of honor next to this important egyptian/Semitic offical.

Again all of this on offical record and all well documented, and all over looked. What get me are people like hawass the egyptologist/sham man who opens tombs on live tv. He leads the charge of this idea that Egypt never enslaved the jews. And that thier is absolute no evidence to support that the jews ever set foot in Egypt on mass as slaves or otherwise. Which is simply not true. Their is a papryus in brooklyn who has a list of slave names on it and 90 of them were semitic names over 1/2 were Jew only names. Not to mention the city they found Under the city of Ramses (Just as the OT said it would be) that proves tens of thousands of Jews if not hundreds of thousands of jews live in eygpt right at the nile delta... Excavation of the tombs showed that in the beginning the dead were old and well fed, but right at the end of this cities population the skelton's average age was late 20 early 30, and they were malnourished. They also found a mass grave site where it was only young boys, which would coinside with the decree Pharaoh made to kill the first born sons when moses was a boy to help control the jewish population.

Everything is there in writting or found in the ground, but 'scholars' want to ignore it because it does not fit a time line THEY have created for an event THEY say Does Not Exist!!! Yet If one look just a few hundred years earilier EVERYTHING The bible claims is found in Egyptian written record or in the ground right where the bible said it would be.

When confronted men like Hawass claim that the documentation was not a first hand account or it was written under duress or they claim it was another semetic tribe who settled and was enslaved or truly ignorant people just say the time line is off so it could not be the Jews and refuse to look at anything further. Even though the people found and the written record says otherwise?!?!?

Again take the time line out, because it is a false parameter not included in scripture, and simply look at what evidence is there and the chronology of said evidence. Again Chronology being the order of said events time line being when those events happened. The chronology is correct even if your time line is not. so bottom line we should be able to agree on what happened even if we can not agree on when it happened.

I took Drippy's link and sent it to an internet acquaintance from other boards.  He's as crazy a xtian dumbass as drippy but can occasionally express an intelligent opinion on other subjects so we keep in touch via email now that the boards we frequented are defunct.

Here's my message:

Quote:You had asked some time ago about this movie.
 
By chance I found that it has been released on Amazon video. 
 
http://m.imdb.com/title/tt3464018/
 
 
It would cost you $3.99.  Personally, I doubt it is worth the investment.  It never made it into the theaters over here.  Maybe they show it in church basements?

Here's his reply:

Quote:I know the people who made it and have known them for several years.  My problem is that they did not give it a wide release but thought they were being cute by doing one or two showings.
 
Most of the information in there is old hat and nothing new that I am aware. i criticized them years ago and they never forgave me for it.

So, when you can't even impress other fundies you are pretty well up shit's creek.

(December 21, 2015 at 3:35 pm)Drich Wrote: The time line being when these events where to take place and under which dynasty. Those details are irrelevent because the bible does not lock the exodus onto Ramses the Great or any other pharaoh/dynasty..

You should really read through the Christian source I provided. If the timeline is shifted IAW your source, other Biblical timelines that today can be corroborated are destroyed.

The Exodus revisionism is bullshit. I'm just the messenger here, this is the conclusion given by your Biblical scholars.

Jewish archaeologists Israel Finkelstein and Neil Silberman noted:

[W]e have no clue, not even a single word, about the early Israelites in Egypt: neither in monumental inscriptions on the walls of temples, nor in tomb inscriptions, nor in papyri. Israel is absent – as a possible foe of Egypt, as a friend, or as an enslaved nation

Most historians today agree that at best, the stay in Egypt and the Exodus occurred in a few families and that their private story was expanded and “nationalized” to fit the needs of theological ideology.

Israeli archaeologist Ze’ev Herzog, provides the current consensus view on the historicity of the Exodus:

The Israelites never were in Egypt. They never came from abroad. This whole chain is broken. It is not a historical one. It is a later legendary reconstruction – made in the seventh century [BCE] – of a history that never happened.

Many other problems:

The bible says that the “Exodus” consisted of  603,550 able-bodied adult males (not counting Levites), wives, non-fighting men, Levites  and children  would have brought the total to 3 million or more. The entire population of Egypt at the time was between 4 - 6 million people. The Hebrews were there for 430 years (according to the Bible mythology). Could you imagine the sort of economic devastation the loss of half of the population that would have had?! Yet, the Egyptian economy was very stable from the time before and after the alleged Exodus.

There is zero archaeological evidence that millions of people, their livestock, their pottery, carts etc ever arrived all at once in Palestine. The archaeology of Palestine has failed to substantiate the Bible’s account of the invasion of Canaan by the Israelites arriving from Egypt,  of the 31 cities supposedly conquered by Joshua, only one (Bethel) shows a destruction level that equates to the Biblical narrative, and there is general agreement that the origins of Israel lie within Canaan itself.

How did Moses get the word to 2.5 - 3 million Children of Israel scattered throughout Egypt,  that  they are to slaughter, roast with fire and, with bitter herbs, they shall slaughter before midnight, a first year male lamb which is without blemish, then put the blood of the lamb on both doorposts. Then, starting after midnight, the 2.5 - 3 million had to bake their unleavened bread, steal all they could from the Egyptians, gather their flocks and herds and very much cattle and then, make their way from all over Egypt, once gathered there go to Succoth, depart from Egypt (the border is 60 miles away), THE SAME DAY (Exodus 12:17, 12:42,12:51)!

Lets do the math...

2.5 -3 million Children of Israel, coming to Ramesses, then traveling 37 miles to Succoth, then another 20 miles to Pi-Hahiroth.

How much does a family group, their livestock, carts, and supplies occupy? Estimates are about 50' diameter. Lets say about 300,000 family groups * 50 = 15,000,000' =  that is a column of people 2840 miles long. At 3 miles an hour (walking nonstop) it would take the first group 20 hours to reach Pi-Hahiroth, abd over 900 hours for the last group to get to the location of the first group.

Even if they walked 10 family groups across, that would still be a column of 280 miles long. A lot shorter, but still unable to be done in the "selfsame day".

The “Children of Israel” were the same in number as the city of Chicago. 

Seriously… How did  Moses communicate with all “the children of Israel”? Remember, all this communication transpired in less that 24 hours.


What about the water? The city of Philadelphia, half of the population of the Children of Israel in the desert, requires 230 million gallons a day, just for a comparison. How did the Israelites get enough water for themselves and their livestock? How was it distributed to 3 million people (Philadelphia has 3000 miles pipes)? And they had to carry it with them. 


There are so many other problems.

But of course, you can always just "magic" these (and many more) logistical problems away.

(December 21, 2015 at 6:37 am)Nontheist Wrote:

(December 21, 2015 at 5:36 am)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote: Even Aaron didn't believe in the BS Moses was spreading and he was right there with him.

I will take your word for it...I lost interest at the talking snake bit.

The talking snake was the Egyptian pharaoh.  The pharaohs had a snake image on their crowns.

Aaron had been with Moses when Moses was doing his magic tricks in Egypt.  Therefore if the God character was real as depicted he would have had experience with him.  But what did he do when Moses took one of his forty day vacations?  He immediately told the crowd of superstitious twits who couldn't go five minutes without worshipping something to fork over all of their gold so that he could make them a false deity.  When Moses showed up he got pissed, but at the crowd and not at Aaron who had actually made the idol.  He then had his thugs kill three thousand dummies but he didn't even say one word in anger to Aaron.  Their religion was pure BS.

My time bills at $1,000/hr. I'll take the $1,500 up front, please.

(December 21, 2015 at 3:35 pm)Drich Wrote:

---

(December 21, 2015 at 11:17 am)Cato Wrote: You don't understand the argument being presented in the film. None of the evidence, as used, is meaningful unless the chronology is shifted; it is central to the argument and cannot be set aside as you would like.

No I totally get it the film. Chronology is not the issue (The order in which things occured, again the evidence supports the biblical chronology completely) The time line is the issue. The time line being when these events where to take place and under which dynasty. Those details are irrelevent because the bible does not lock the exodus onto Ramses the Great or any other pharaoh/dynasty.. Nor does it mention which pharaoh took the Jews in initially. so without these two book ends your time line becomes meaningless. we then look for chronology meaning the recorded history of the egyptians to identify a series of events that coincide with scripture, and low and behold we found it in what you all would identify as Egypt's middle kingdom. or rather the reason for the end of the middle kingdom.

What this film does is match chronology found in egypt's recorded history, and what was found in dig site after dig site.. (Did I mention they found Joseph's House and out back a tomb (mini prymid with a statue of him he had red hair, and a semitic/Bedouin robe made of many different colors.) and along side it 12 other semitic tombs? (12 tribes of israel/His 12 brothers) all in a place of honor next to this important egyptian/Semitic offical.

Again all of this on offical record and all well documented, and all over looked. What get me are people like hawass the egyptologist/sham man who opens tombs on live tv. He leads the charge of this idea that Egypt never enslaved the jews. And that thier is absolute no evidence to support that the jews ever set foot in Egypt on mass as slaves or otherwise. Which is simply not true. Their is a papryus in brooklyn who has a list of slave names on it and 90 of them were semitic names over 1/2 were Jew only names. Not to mention the city they found Under the city of Ramses (Just as the OT said it would be) that proves tens of thousands of Jews if not hundreds of thousands of jews live in eygpt right at the nile delta... Excavation of the tombs showed that in the beginning the dead were old and well fed, but right at the end of this cities population the skelton's average age was late 20 early 30, and they were malnourished. They also found a mass grave site where it was only young boys, which would coinside with the decree Pharaoh made to kill the first born sons when moses was a boy to help control the jewish population.

Everything is there in writting or found in the ground, but 'scholars' want to ignore it because it does not fit a time line THEY have created for an event THEY say Does Not Exist!!! Yet If one look just a few hundred years earilier EVERYTHING The bible claims is found in Egyptian written record or in the ground right where the bible said it would be.

When confronted men like Hawass claim that the documentation was not a first hand account or it was written under duress or they claim it was another semetic tribe who settled and was enslaved or truly ignorant people just say the time line is off so it could not be the Jews and refuse to look at anything further. Even though the people found and the written record says otherwise?!?!?

---

Quote:Again take the time line out, because it is a false parameter not included in scripture, and simply look at what evidence is there and the chronology of said evidence. Again Chronology being the order of said events time line being when those events happened. The chronology is correct even if your time line is not. so bottom line we should be able to agree on what happened even if we can not agree on when it happened.

OK, you believe in the Exodus story.  So you must believe the story about the million man army from Sudan that invaded Israel.