(December 30, 2015 at 2:47 pm)wallym Wrote:

(December 30, 2015 at 1:40 pm)Brian37 Wrote: No you are not fine with anyone calling it nonsense otherwise why make the attempt to "correct" me.

Maybe he was just holding a mirror up to what he perceived as your ignorance on the issue?  Isn't that what this thread is about?  The ability to correct people without being called angry militants?  Yet he politely corrects what he thought were misrepresentations, and then you respond weirdly aggressively.

What "ignorance"? The age of our species and the fact that there was no religion 200,000 years ago? Or that the planet is 4 billion years old? Or that the universe is 14 billion years old? Or that in 10 billion years none of our human invented religions will be remembered.

And stop, there is absolutely nothing "militant" about any of my posts here or anywhere on the net. Offending someone only means they got offended. "Militant" is when you insist on arrest of someone merely because you don't like what they claim. "Militant" is when you pass laws oppressing others. "Militant" is when you get violent with others because they don't belong to the same club you do. I defy you do show me where I demanded his arrest or called for violence against him.......SHOW ME.

"Aggressive" is that the new word now? No, sorry I did not do anything "aggressive". I simply didn't sugar coat my position. Your comfort level is yours not mine. If he has a problem with our interaction he is perfectly capable of responding himself.

All religions argue the same things.

"My religion has pretty things in it"

"My religion is old"

"My religion says do good"

And? They all do that, Buddhism is not special. Buddha was just a man who started a religion.

(December 30, 2015 at 3:24 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(December 30, 2015 at 2:47 pm)wallym Wrote: Maybe he was just holding a mirror up to what he perceived as your ignorance on the issue?  Isn't that what this thread is about?  The ability to correct people without being called angry militants?  Yet he politely corrects what he thought were misrepresentations, and then you respond weirdly aggressively.

What "ignorance"? The age of our species and the fact that there was no religion 200,000 years ago? Or that the planet is 4 billion years old? Or that the universe is 14 billion years old? Or that in 10 billion years none of our human invented religions will be remembered.

And stop, there is absolutely nothing "militant" about any of my posts here or anywhere on the net. Offending someone only means they got offended. "Militant" is when you insist on arrest of someone merely because you don't like what they claim. "Militant" is when you pass laws oppressing others. "Militant" is when you get violent with others because they don't belong to the same club you do. I defy you do show me where I demanded his arrest or called for violence against him.......SHOW ME.

"Aggressive" is that the new word now? No, sorry I did not do anything "aggressive". I simply didn't sugar coat my position. Your comfort level is yours not mine. If he has a problem with our interaction he is perfectly capable of responding himself.

You called him a liar for saying he didn't care if you called his beliefs bullshit using some crazy person logic.  I'd say that was the 'aggressive' part.  

If that's how you respond to people politely correcting you, it seems your expectations for how people should respond to you impolitely correcting them are hypocritical, no?  

Not that it really matters.  Just making small talk.

Buddhism also has a clergy which leeches from the populace at large. Every look at the palace that the dalai lama lived in? Also the leagues of slums that surrounded it? Like every religion, it just serves to divide people and enrich manipulators who do nothing for society.

(December 30, 2015 at 3:33 pm)wallym Wrote:

(December 30, 2015 at 3:24 pm)Brian37 Wrote: What "ignorance"? The age of our species and the fact that there was no religion 200,000 years ago? Or that the planet is 4 billion years old? Or that the universe is 14 billion years old? Or that in 10 billion years none of our human invented religions will be remembered.

And stop, there is absolutely nothing "militant" about any of my posts here or anywhere on the net. Offending someone only means they got offended. "Militant" is when you insist on arrest of someone merely because you don't like what they claim. "Militant" is when you pass laws oppressing others. "Militant" is when you get violent with others because they don't belong to the same club you do. I defy you do show me where I demanded his arrest or called for violence against him.......SHOW ME.

"Aggressive" is that the new word now? No, sorry I did not do anything "aggressive". I simply didn't sugar coat my position. Your comfort level is yours not mine. If he has a problem with our interaction he is perfectly capable of responding himself.

You called him a liar for saying he didn't care if you called his beliefs bullshit using some crazy person logic.  I'd say that was the 'aggressive' part.  

If that's how you respond to people politely correcting you, it seems your expectations for how people should respond to you impolitely correcting them are hypocritical, no?  

Not that it really matters.  Just making small talk.

No that was not aggressive at all. If I don't care about what someone says I don't respond to it. He cared enough to respond. And again, he has, and you have ignore options, let him respond or do you think he can't handle himself?

(December 30, 2015 at 3:40 pm)CapnAwesome Wrote: Buddhism also has a clergy which leeches from the populace at large. Every look at the palace that the dalai lama lived in? Also the leagues of slums that surrounded it? Like every religion, it just serves to divide people and enrich manipulators who do nothing for society.

Yes and no. I still believe in the good in humanity, even of those liberal individuals who still believe. I don't like however the insistence on taboos for any. I think religion can and does infect politics way too much and is self serving to a great degree and yes it is used to exploit people. But even with the good people in religion, there is no polite way to say it does divide, and Buddhism doesn't escape divisions too.

Buddhism has it's power grabs, it has it's corruption and sexism too, there is no perfect religion anywhere in the world of any label. But as Penn has put it, "Don't hate the faithful, hate faith itself".

I DO value the likes of MLK and Malala and Ann Frank, very empathetic people, but that does not make their gods real or their religions the gatekeepers of human morality. Our species ability to be cruel or compassionate is in us, not the religions or deities humans invent.

(December 30, 2015 at 3:54 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(December 30, 2015 at 3:33 pm)wallym Wrote: You called him a liar for saying he didn't care if you called his beliefs bullshit using some crazy person logic.  I'd say that was the 'aggressive' part.  

If that's how you respond to people politely correcting you, it seems your expectations for how people should respond to you impolitely correcting them are hypocritical, no?  

Not that it really matters.  Just making small talk.

No that was not aggressive at all. If I don't care about what someone says I don't respond to it. He cared enough to respond. And again, he has, and you have ignore options, let him respond or do you think he can't handle himself?

I have waived my option to ignore, and will continue on!  I can stop if you want, so you can get back to Buddhism being bad if you like.

How it looked from my pov:
I saw your wife Betty yesterday, and she is Ugly!
You can call my wife ugly if you want, but you should know her name is Linda, and she's been dead for 10 years. 
Clearly you are rattled by my insult as you have chosen to respond!

(December 30, 2015 at 4:42 pm)wallym Wrote:

(December 30, 2015 at 3:54 pm)Brian37 Wrote: No that was not aggressive at all. If I don't care about what someone says I don't respond to it. He cared enough to respond. And again, he has, and you have ignore options, let him respond or do you think he can't handle himself?

I have waived my option to ignore, and will continue on!  I can stop if you want, so you can get back to Buddhism being bad if you like.

How it looked from my pov:
I saw your wife Betty yesterday, and she is Ugly!
You can call my wife ugly if you want, but you should know her name is Linda, and she's been dead for 10 years. 
Clearly you are rattled by my insult as you have chosen to respond!

Um no. That is what you chose to see.

Calling someone's logic bad is not saying they are bad. 

Religions(edit)use myths to market religions. Religions would not sell at all if they didn't over conflate themselves. It is only way after a meme spreads based on those myths, that the religious try to separate themselves from their origins. ALL ALL ALL religions do this.

Buddhism is a spin off of Hinduism. Just like Mormonism is a spin off of Christianity. Just like Islam is a spin off of Christianity, and Christianity is a spin off of Hebrew, and Hebrew is a spin off of the Canaanite Polytheism. The religions of the orient in all their forms are no different.  No different than the appeal of a stage illusionist or casino, someone sets it up, dresses it up with all sorts of fantastic distractions and the fantastic images and icons act as the billboard. Religions water down their superstitions and fantastic claims after the fact, they are not separate.

Buddha was just a man who started another religion. There is nothing special about Buddhism.

How much evidence is there that Buddha was a real person?

Or, I should say, intended to be a real person.

(December 30, 2015 at 7:38 pm)robvalue Wrote: How much evidence is there that Buddha was a real person?

Or, I should say, intended to be a real person.

Well most of the Buddhist world will tell you he was a real person. I did run into one article that disputed the time he achieved Nirvana and that article has different sects claiming different times, but what else is new, competing sects just like any other religion.