(December 30, 2015 at 3:26 pm)thesummerqueen Wrote: Oh, I'm sure that will be the loudest complaint about her - from men who are pissy about the story. Give me a break. There's nothing Mary Sue about her.

Right, she doesn't cook.

Please make a valid list of reasons why she's a Mary Sue.

And remember - I already don't think you're coming from a balanced point of film criticism here since you dislike JJ so intensely.

Is there a male version of this Mary Sue complaint, or is it only when an exceptional female character appears on screen that this criticism is used?

This is a time line of your comments that don't add up to me (in my own words):

Original trilogy is good, I like Luke---> Rey is a rehash of Luke---> Rey is a Mary Sue character---> I apparently have no problem with Luke being the male version of Mary Sue, for some reason.

(December 30, 2015 at 3:37 pm)Exian Wrote: Is there a male version of this Mary Sue complaint, or is it only when an exceptional female character appears on screen that this criticism is used?

Occasionally people complain about a "Gary Stu" character but generally the Mary Sue insult is tossed around any time someone gets pissed at a powerful female character.

She flies a spaceship she has evidently never flown before so well that she can dodge tie fighters in the guts of a star destroyer.  She can fix a spaceship she has only been on for a few minutes better than Han Solo, who presumably knows a thing or two about all the special modifications he made to the ship.  She is sufficiently unfamiliar with a blaster to forget it has a safety, but never misses once she turns it off.  She knows she can use the force to influence Daniel Craig without being told force could do that.  She knows how to pick up a light saber with telekinesis without being told how to, and she beats the stuffing out Kylo Ren even though Ren had training enough to to kill all of Luke's other apprentices, while she her self had no training at all.

It sound like she should be training Luke, not the other way around.

Well, Luke was quite a Marty Stu character in episold 4. But nothing like Rey in Episold 7. At least Luke needs to be taught.

(December 30, 2015 at 3:43 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote: She flies a spaceship she has evidently never flown before so well that she can dodge tie fighters in the guts of a star destroyer.  She can fix a spaceship she has only been on for a few minutes better than Han Solo, who presumably knows a thing or two about all the special modifications he made to the ship.  She is sufficiently unfamiliar with a blaster to forget it has a safety, but never misses once she turns it off.  She knows she can use the force to influence Daniel Craig without being told force could do that.  She knows how to pick up a light saber with telekinesis without being told how to, and she beats the stuffing out Kylo Ren even though Ren had training enough to to kill all of Luke's other apprentices, while she her self had no training at all.

It sound like she should be training Luke, not the other way around.

1) Meh.  She's definitely a skilled pilot, and pilots with the force do crazy things.  It's pretty well established in the Star Wars world that someone who can pilot one thing can pretty much pilot anything as long as they don't need more crew members.  And, I mean... she was kinda bouncing around into stuff all over before she got the hang of it.

2) It's star wars.  Good guys don't miss, bad guys don't hit.  Just realizing this now?

3) Kylo Ren was all like "I'm'a use the force to look into your brain".  He tried and she was all like "I'm looking into your brain sucka."  She heard a stormtrooper and was all like "I wonder if I can mess around in his brain."  It's not like things could get a ton worse for her.

4) Just like luke.

5) Kylo Ren had training enough to kill all of Luke's other apprentices, but he also had a) only one kidney, b) approximately half of a liver, c) only about 2/3 of his blood, the rest of it lying in the snow, and d) no actual desire to kill her (he wants to teach her).  And gal was swinging a staff around like there was no freakin' tomorrow early on.

(December 30, 2015 at 3:43 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote: She flies a spaceship she has evidently never flown before so well that she can dodge tie fighters in the guts of a star destroyer.

1) the guts of a star destroyer she explores all the time

2) Current thinking is that she is possibly Luke's progeny - both he and Ani were talented natural pilots. But also... (see below)

(December 30, 2015 at 3:43 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote: She can fix a spaceship she has only been on for a few minutes better than Han Solo, who presumably knows a thing or two about all the special modifications he made to the ship.

Someone pointed out that there was a manual of space ships or something of that nature in her living quarters - she was clearly obsessed to the point of having X-Wing fighter dolls and a helmet stashed there. She had nothing better to do than learn about ships - including the "junk" one that she was familiar enough with to know its provenance - probably from having dicked around inside it.

(December 30, 2015 at 3:43 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote: She is sufficiently unfamiliar with a blaster to remember it has a safety, but never misses once she turns it off.

The storm troopers in these movies seem to have developed better aim as well. No one's complaining about that...

(December 30, 2015 at 3:43 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote: She knows she can use the force to influence Daniel Craig without being told force could do that.

Bullshit - she had clearly heard some stories about the old Jedi order and what they could do. In fact, Han confirmed that the stories were true.

(December 30, 2015 at 3:43 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote: She knows how to pick up a light saber with telekinesis without being told how to,

Same as above.

(December 30, 2015 at 3:43 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote: and she beats the stuffing out Kylo Ren even though Ren had training enough to to kill all of Luke's other apprentices, while she her self had no training at all.

1) Ren had been shot, thus weakened, as well as thrown out of his headspace by her resistence
2) she's a bowstaff wielder - she was swinging that lightsaber around like a person who was used to a staff.

(December 30, 2015 at 3:43 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote: It sound like she should be training Luke, not the other way around.

Nothing she did in any way was 'unique' to stories she had heard and experimented with, or things she saw Kylo Ren doing and immediately assumed must be possible, then.

Leia, I'll remind you, needed no training to resist Darth Motherfucking Vader when he was interrogating her, even with an interrogation droid helping and his considerable force strength. Don't talk to me about her being a Mary Sue.

Now second time through I got to be more critical and really examine what was told story wise and picked up on a few new things.

Big one I think gives hints to who rey was/her back ground
In her home (where she made that green powder bread) before we get to see it is a blown out ATAT we see she has a shelf of trinkets one of which is a home made x-wing pilot doll and she is wearing a x-wing helmet just before she runs into BB8 it had two gold rebel insignias on it.

In ANH and in ESB that style (xwing helmet) with two red rebel insignias was luke's goto design.

first time through I was at a total loss in Rey's cave scene. (when she found luke's saber)

On the second look the scene starts out with her in the role of a youngling/child jedi trainee who witnessed Kylo's decent into the dark side where he and his friends kills all of Luk's other jedi padawan learners. (It's raining and everyone is face down in the mud wearing jedi robes except rey) then it cuts to Rey being left on the planet with that fat monster guy who tried to buy BB for "60 portions" and then you see this rectangle shaped grey ship leaving . Then it fast forwards to rey on the planet destroyer in her final battler with "So-Low" (what I am calling ben after he killed his Father) well before that battle took place.

Then she snaps out of it. In the vision sequence Kylo spares Rey for some reason. she was a little kid, but then again he had just slaughtered a bunch of kids. he had to know her personally to spare her. Not to mention that absolute Freak out and total destruction of the star destroyer's tech panel after the lieutenant told him that the BB unit and FN2187 escaped with the help of 'a girl.' with a similar freak out after Rey escapes the sith mind rape chamber. This level of anger is displayed both times Rey escapes. (like he's mad i'm in trouble/this would not have happened if i only killed her back then)

Next little trinket was just before the 'cave scene' where she goes after fin trying to tell him not to leave. the bugged eyed old lady asks han who she was. then it cuts away. Next time we see her/bug eyes is right after the vision sequence has ended, and she is trying to hand off Lukes/anikin's ESB light saber off to her. I think Han told her it was Lukes daughter.

I think he recognized her, and that is why he offered her a job like he offered luke the Same job in ANH!

Also did anyone else noticed the new 'porkins?' it the cop from Heros! he also stars in the Sy-fy original 'big ass spider'
I'm kinda glad that new porkins did not die. i just looked him up. the new porkins name is "snapp wexley" he is apart of the EU, but the actor greg grunberg is a childhood friend of Abrams.
Abrams puts him in just about everything he does. He's even in star trek!

Holy crap talk about unfair. this smow grows up next door to abrams, play star wars with him as a child they watch star trek and star wars movies as teens and abrams puts him in all his coolest films, what's worse he get to be new porkins that lives and got to be in star trek too. I don't even think the shat or stewie could have pulled off being in both films!

I'm pretty Jelly

All my star trek and star wars friends ever do for me was grow up and beat me for still liking 'star stuff' after it was cool.

(December 30, 2015 at 3:31 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote:

(December 30, 2015 at 3:26 pm)thesummerqueen Wrote: Oh, I'm sure that will be the loudest complaint about her - from men who are pissy about the story. Give me a break. There's nothing Mary Sue about her.

Right, she doesn't cook.

she seems to make a mean instant green bread, and green fried spam