Fuzzy...lol, he thinks that the book -is- all of those things...it's positively magical.......

(January 8, 2016 at 1:07 pm)drfuzzy Wrote:

(January 8, 2016 at 12:50 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: But your not convinced it is. So why should you take as an authority? You have no reason to. You don't perceive it being true nor it's insights nor it's eloquence. You haven't studied it thoroughly or with a charitable attitude.

LOL!!!   Mystic, that's exactly the same thing Funditard xtians say when we object to anything in their "Wholly Babble" book: "but, you didn't READ IT THE RIGHT WAY!!!"   
    I memorized the freaking damn book.  I will go to my grave with idiot bible verses stuck in my brain.  And for over 40 years, I treated it like it was oh-so-special.  
    And then I started studying science, and asking questions, and reading about the cosmos, and those questions started to get asked about the damn BOOK.  And when you simply start paying attention to what the book says, without that rose-colored filter of "special", you very quickly start asking yourself how you EVER thought it was "special".  The very idea that somebody thought most of those stories were suitable to teach to children makes me a little nauseous.   Genocide.  War.  Rape.  Murder.  Misogyny.  Xenophobia in spades.
    Geez, and the fundies want to ban the Harry Potter books from libraries?  Wow.

Oh, but I didn't READ IT THE RIGHT WAY.   I didn't assume GAWD wrote it, and hid super-special messages just for me in between the lines.

We know their Babble better than they do, but still they "know" more!

When I disbelieved in the Quran, I was able to find faults in it. I was a Deist as a result for 5 years. An Atheist only for a week, and even then, not your average Joe Atheist but one who was in severe distress and on the brink of despair.

I went through a period of believing in Islam and disbelieving in it, for about a year and half, in which most of the time I inclined to Deism.

As Rhythm alludes to, I believe what caused me to think there were problems were dark hidden forces and a dark magic on the heart. When I solved them and a clearer more rational recitation took place, along with a deeper perception of the rights of God's chosen ones, the family of Mohammad, in Quran, I began to believe there was something sinister in this world that wanted to keep me from perceiving the truth of the Quran.

With that attitude, I experienced Quran on whole new levels that I never did before, and the ugly faces of it that appeared to me of it, disappeared into that of beauty, wisdom, reason, majesty, and light.

I don't believe that I can't explain much of that perception, I believe much of it can be explained, which is why I want to write a book about the Quran, my perception of the Surahs explained. The reading in between the lines, that once manifested, seems like, what made me miss this?

(January 8, 2016 at 3:59 pm)God of Mr. Hanky Wrote: We know their Babble better than they do, but still they "know" more!

Well yeah but that's because they 'know' the part which isn't at all reasonable to believe, unless of course you're already strongly convinced for no discernible reason at all.

So, Mystic...launching yourself into the aether from a starting point of base absurdity..you expected to find wisdom, and feel that you have been reasonable? When you began to believe in demons, this convinced you of islam...but not islam islam.....no, "between-the-lines" islam.................?

The Quran is proof that people can write things down.

One thing that opened up to me is that relationship of the 7 oft repeated verses and Quran.

The Quran seems to distinguish Suratal Fatiha from the rest of the Quran (ofcourse part of the Quran, but has distinct status)

"And verily we gave you the seven mathani (oft repeated verses/counter parts) and the great Quran"

The 7 mathani I'll to translate as best I could:

"Through the Name of God, the Compassionate, the Merciful
All praise is to God, the Lord of the Worlds.
The Compassionate, the Merciful.
Master of the Day of judgement.
You we worship, and You we seek help from.
Guide us the straight path.
The path of those who you favored, not of those who your wrath is upon, neither of those who are astray"

From a stand point, one has to wonder, what in these verses does a Jew for example not believe in? Or a Christian? Or even anyone who believes in God in general.

Day of judgement is not explained, it can be any time we face judgement....a certain day will happen. A person can even believe in reincarnation but believe he will be judged before he is reincarnated.

The point is this Surah is very neutral. Yet if you can connect the dots, the rest of the Quran elaborates on each of these 7 verses, in which there is proof for the religion.

It seems the only people who won't feel truth in Suratal Fatiha is Atheists. Even polytheists won't have a problem with it.

But it seems if we acknowledge these facts, the Quran is saying, you will understand how acknowledging these facts ought to awaken you to the truth of his religion and which religion is correct.

The Quran goes into a discourse and in that discourse, you come to realize the summary of Quran is in Suratal Fatiha or rather it is the axis by which it relies on.

That is why Salah which it emphasizes on can have any surahs but must always have suratal fatiha twice.

Anyways, I don't want to bore you guys, but there is a lot more to be said about the 7 mathani (oft repeated verses/counter parts to the Quran).

No, Mystic..that the quran agrees with it's own assertions is not proof for the religion.  Get your head out of your ass.

(January 8, 2016 at 4:07 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: When I disbelieved in the Quran, I was able to find faults in it. 
 I began to believe there was something sinister in this world that wanted to keep me from perceiving the truth of the Quran.
With that attitude, I experienced Quran on whole new levels that I never did before, and the ugly faces of it that appeared to me of it, disappeared into that of  beauty, wisdom, reason, majesty, and light.

See, my friend, you said it right there . . . much relies on your perception of the book, what it is, and what you expect from it.  Write your book.  I have found that the very act of writing tends to clarify issues.  And I hope that it is a great experience for you.  


I, personally, don't believe that there exists any book - or any story, or literature of any kind in any media format that was inspired by such a creature as a deity.  They are all human creations for me.  Some have value for their knowledge or wisdom, but none are worth reverence.

Be well.

(January 8, 2016 at 11:21 am)drfuzzy Wrote:

(January 8, 2016 at 11:15 am)Sheed1980 Wrote: well one problem is I just joined this website in 2016 not 2012. But regardless of when the miracles are mentioned they still trace back to the same Qur'an which was first revealed in the year 610. So the same miracles will be revealed over and over again since EVERY SINGLE ARABIC LETTER has been preserved and hasn't changed one single time.

And clearly you didn't bother to read the rules.   
Miracles!   As somebody else posted, they MIGHT be worth looking at if all of the modern "miracles" mentioned were actually in the original text.  Otherwise, all you have is someone manipulating letters and numbers in a book.  You can do that with ANY book.  You can find the same "miracles" in a Harry Potter book, a cookbook, or a newspaper.

But my friend obviously u didn't pay attention to my response. Because I clearly said that the Qur'an is in its original Arabic language in which not ONE SINGLE LETTER HAS BEEN CHANGED since the first revelation of the Qur'an to the Prophet Muhammad(PBUH)which was over 1400 years ago. So no one has manipulated any letters in this book.