(January 9, 2016 at 2:10 am)yukapuka Wrote:

---

(January 8, 2016 at 6:18 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Same thing you do when the quran says something different then what you believe.  Make shit up, or ignore them.

Hadith are not taken as true unless they can be verified

there is a science of hadith where its narrators are studied(through other hadiths and biographies from Arabian historians of Islamic world) and the life of the Prophet is also studied(since again this is very heavily documented , which he himself told them to document, he told them to write down everything he did and say and there was constantly scribes going around with him , writing down his revelations and his life and everything he did, and also by the way he turned his nation of illiterates into a fully writing and reading nation in again a very short time 30 years  ) there is even scribes who wrote down the same event but different writers , so if an event occurred or he did or said something , you can find 3-4 narrations from different people of the same event

However that being said Muhammd(PBUH) still had enemies, all those people he fought against in the beginning or actually fought against him and exiled him and attacked him and killed his family members and followers, all of them eventually became Muslim , they couldnt oppose his message any more so they became Muslim and tried to work from within of gaining this new found power

and since everyone was encouraged to write about his life his actions etc and to pass them on, his enemies did the same, they tried to destroy his image because they knew the Muslim nation loved Muhamamd(PBUH) and was so successful because of his behaviour because of his high level of morals, because of his gentleness and kindness

and so they paid people to go out and destroy this image, to write lies against him, and there is MANY hadith which are proven to be false such as certain narrators will write, and some even writing about him in times when they were not even existent

"i was with so and so and seen Muhamamd(PBUH) do so and so at this time ...."


but then when the narrators biographies are studied , it is proven that they were not even in Mecca or Medina or wherever the event is being narrated at the same time of the Prophet, sometimes even they were not born and around at that time etc

so the narrators and their lives are studied and biographies , because as soon as the Arab nation learned to write , EVERYTHING was starting to be documented, people went write crazy, they were writing about others about themselves , it became like a hobby for everyone

the Quran inspired everyone, taking a people who couldnt read and write and giving them a 1000 page book , changed their lives and everything completely and they acted upon it

so Hadith are many , and there is a science that scholars use today to to study the narrators

---

---

(January 9, 2016 at 2:07 am)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote: The hadiths were written centuries after Mohammed supposedly bit the dust.  They are camel crap.  The Saudis follow a lot of them verbatim.

your completely wrong and talking out of your rear end and in ignorance

the most HEAVILY documented period was DURING the life of the Prophet , because HE instructed them and there was constantly scribed going around witht he Prophet writing and watching and listening to everything the Prophet did

it wasnt just that, but when he would even do things like get ablution(muslims ceremony with water prior to prayer) people would fight over the water that would fall from his face and hands

not just that, but people would collect the hair when he would trim and have a hair cut, which you can find today in museums, which only goes to show how much peole wanted everything from him , his clothes also we still have it, his personal items also

so it is no surprise that they also wrote down everything he said and did

people would spend the night at his house just so that they can document what he does at night, how he spends his time etc , and they documented his many prayers which he would spend his nights worshipping and his days fasting

(January 8, 2016 at 5:04 pm)yukapuka Wrote:

(January 8, 2016 at 4:54 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Mohamed, a socialist and a humanist......... 

I think somebodies hoodwinked you about one of those three things.

if this man was a crazy liar evil person like you imagine

his name wouldnt have survived 1500 years later , his books, his religion, his life narratives, his beard particles, and many other items of his that clearly people cherished so much

this has not happened with any other person , and lies dont last 1500 years , tyrannts always get exposed, they dont get followers and their beard hairs saved and put in museums

people dont cry over such personalities daily, so much love isnt given to any person the way we give to Muhammad(PBUH) and as you have seen when they insult him in cartoons how upset Muslims get(despite that he himself wouldnt approve of their reactions as some have done)

we have so much about him, every step of his way was documented by people because he was such a phenomenal and great character and his achievements were truly unprecedented and to be never repeated, he changed 1/3rd of the face of earth in 30 years!!! that takes an EXTREME genius to do , but not to do it with weapons and wars but with manners and love!!

if all of this was false, it wouldnt have lasted and remembered like this, it just doesnt work that way

every hundred years his message get stronger and stronger , Islam grows at a phenomenal rate

how many white Americans alone converted to Islam after learning about him and his message

things like this cant be create with lies

things like this dont last like the way it lasted with him and will continue to last another 1000 years after our time

when we are dead and nobody knows we even existed, his name will still be remembered and he will still be adored and loved

and if you think you can create such a legacy with a lie, then i dare you try it for yourself, make yourself the man like Muhammad(PBUH) go to some desolate people and bring them out of the ashes into a nation that become so powerful and honourable and pioneers and leaders of the world in 30 years, and bring a book that will never be forgotten as eloquent and beautiful as the Quran that so many people read EVERY day 5 times a day by 2 billion people for their whole duration of their lives

even Jesus couldnt do that and didnt do that, no man has done that NONE!! that he whas reached all people from al walks of life from all corners of the earth

his mosques are everywhere!! in every country in every city in every town , you really are not grasping the impact of his!!

lies cant do that, they dont do that, only truth can do that

peace....

(January 9, 2016 at 8:04 pm)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote:

(January 9, 2016 at 2:10 am)yukapuka Wrote:

---

Hadith are not taken as true unless they can be verified

there is a science of hadith where its narrators are studied(through other hadiths and biographies from Arabian historians of Islamic world) and the life of the Prophet is also studied(since again this is very heavily documented , which he himself told them to document, he told them to write down everything he did and say and there was constantly scribes going around with him , writing down his revelations and his life and everything he did, and also by the way he turned his nation of illiterates into a fully writing and reading nation in again a very short time 30 years  ) there is even scribes who wrote down the same event but different writers , so if an event occurred or he did or said something , you can find 3-4 narrations from different people of the same event

However that being said Muhammd(PBUH) still had enemies, all those people he fought against in the beginning or actually fought against him and exiled him and attacked him and killed his family members and followers, all of them eventually became Muslim , they couldnt oppose his message any more so they became Muslim and tried to work from within of gaining this new found power

and since everyone was encouraged to write about his life his actions etc and to pass them on, his enemies did the same, they tried to destroy his image because they knew the Muslim nation loved Muhamamd(PBUH) and was so successful because of his behaviour because of his high level of morals, because of his gentleness and kindness

and so they paid people to go out and destroy this image, to write lies against him, and there is MANY hadith which are proven to be false such as certain narrators will write, and some even writing about him in times when they were not even existent

"i was with so and so and seen Muhamamd(PBUH) do so and so at this time ...."


but then when the narrators biographies are studied , it is proven that they were not even in Mecca or Medina or wherever the event is being narrated at the same time of the Prophet, sometimes even they were not born and around at that time etc

so the narrators and their lives are studied and biographies , because as soon as the Arab nation learned to write , EVERYTHING was starting to be documented, people went write crazy, they were writing about others about themselves , it became like a hobby for everyone

the Quran inspired everyone, taking a people who couldnt read and write and giving them a 1000 page book , changed their lives and everything completely and they acted upon it

so Hadith are many , and there is a science that scholars use today to to study the narrators

---

---

your completely wrong and talking out of your rear end and in ignorance

the most HEAVILY documented period was DURING the life of the Prophet , because HE instructed them and there was constantly scribed going around witht he Prophet writing and watching and listening to everything the Prophet did

it wasnt just that, but when he would even do things like get ablution(muslims ceremony with water prior to prayer) people would fight over the water that would fall from his face and hands

not just that, but people would collect the hair when he would trim and have a hair cut, which you can find today in museums, which only goes to show how much peole wanted everything from him , his clothes also we still have it, his personal items also

so it is no surprise that they also wrote down everything he said and did

people would spend the night at his house just so that they can document what he does at night, how he spends his time etc , and they documented his many prayers which he would spend his nights worshipping and his days fasting

That's a great way to sell a delusion.  Remember, most of the Arabs were illiterate.  Surah 3:75.  According to the fairy tale Mohammed initially spent most of his time with a small ignorant cult.  None of them wrote down anything.  Besides, it's highly doubtful that there were a lot of stationery stores in the desert when they could get paper and ink supplies.  

The fact is that the hadiths were written centuries after Mohammed supposedly bit the dust.  Most of them are cultural rules of the dominant Arab tribes in Arabia.  The writers just added a couple of magic words to get the dummies to accept them.

(January 9, 2016 at 8:14 pm)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote:

(January 8, 2016 at 5:04 pm)yukapuka Wrote: if this man was a crazy liar evil person like you imagine

his name wouldnt have survived 1500 years later , his books, his religion, his life narratives, his beard particles, and many other items of his that clearly people cherished so much

this has not happened with any other person , and lies dont last 1500 years , tyrannts always get exposed, they dont get followers and their beard hairs saved and put in museums

people dont cry over such personalities daily, so much love isnt given to any person the way we give to Muhammad(PBUH) and as you have seen when they insult him in cartoons how upset Muslims get(despite that he himself wouldnt approve of their reactions as some have done)

we have so much about him, every step of his way was documented by people because he was such a phenomenal and great character and his achievements were truly unprecedented and to be never repeated, he changed 1/3rd of the face of earth in 30 years!!! that takes an EXTREME genius to do , but not to do it with weapons and wars but with manners and love!!

if all of this was false, it wouldnt have lasted and remembered like this, it just doesnt work that way

every hundred years his message get stronger and stronger , Islam grows at a phenomenal rate

how many white Americans alone converted to Islam after learning about him and his message

things like this cant be create with lies

things like this dont last like the way it lasted with him and will continue to last another 1000 years after our time

when we are dead and nobody knows we even existed, his name will still be remembered and he will still be adored and loved

and if you think you can create such a legacy with a lie, then i dare you try it for yourself, make yourself the man like Muhammad(PBUH) go to some desolate people and bring them out of the ashes into a nation that become so powerful and honourable and pioneers and leaders of the world in 30 years, and bring a book that will never be forgotten as eloquent and beautiful as the Quran that so many people read EVERY day 5 times a day by 2 billion people for their whole duration of their lives

even Jesus couldnt do that and didnt do that, no man has done that NONE!! that he whas reached all people from al walks of life from all corners of the earth

his mosques are everywhere!! in every country in every city in every town , you really are not grasping the impact of his!!

lies cant do that, they dont do that, only truth can do that

peace....

If no one had ever mentioned Mohammed to you in your entire life would you know  about him?  You only believe in him because you have been brainwashed into believing what other people have told you about him.  You have no first hand knowledge about him or any real reason to believe that such a character ever existed and did what he supposedly did.  You simply believe other people's delusions.  Are you even an Arab?

(January 9, 2016 at 11:52 pm)yukapuka Wrote:

---

(January 9, 2016 at 8:04 pm)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote: That's a great way to sell a delusion.  Remember, most of the Arabs were illiterate.  Surah 3:75.  According to the fairy tale Mohammed initially spent most of his time with a small ignorant cult.  None of them wrote down anything.  Besides, it's highly doubtful that there were a lot of stationery stores in the desert when they could get paper and ink supplies.  

The fact is that the hadiths were written centuries after Mohammed supposedly bit the dust.  Most of them are cultural rules of the dominant Arab tribes in Arabia.  The writers just added a couple of magic words to get the dummies to accept them.

wow it really is amazing how you guys can make some argument but have never heard of backing these argument up , and this really demonstrates just how much you talk out of absolute nonsense

you have less than zero knowledge on the subject and you are just assuming and "supposing"

---

if you had bothered to read what i wrote earlier, which obviously you didnt which shows something about your character , you would have noticed that teh first revelation to the Prophet(PBUH) was "Read" and also "God taught by the pen that which man knew not"

---

SO you see the followers of Prophet Muhamamd(PBUH) and also the Prophet himself, followed those verses of revelation and instruction , they were nto just said for no reason, but an instruction, i.e make your people literate and teach them to right by the pen

that was the FIRST revelation , and there is MANY historical accounts from historians who have through their studies confirmed this fact that Muhammad(PBUH) of the many things he did, one of them was teach his nation to read and write by instruction of him

another thing which clearly shows your ignorance, is that you have just NO idea how thorough and elaborate the arabs got busy during he life of the Prophet to do with reading and writing about himself and also about other people in that time

---

and if you think that the Arabs couldn't read and write, then how was the Quran long before the Prophet died? but not just that, there is thousands of hadiths about the Prophet THOUSANDS , detailing so much

there is also not just writings but even his beard hair that was preserved by the people, on more then one occasion

real genuine historians , would not agree with this view you have and you are absolutely wrong on this subject , totally ignorant and insist on something that it isnt true to feed some fantasy you have of how you want to perceive history

(January 10, 2016 at 12:00 am)Minimalist Wrote: Yes, there are batshit crazy mathematicians just as there are batshit crazy muslims....and xtians.