Yes and no,

Yes in the context that there is no script to life. Gender rolls either. What matters is not who does what or who supports who. What matters is is consent and more stability for everyone.

But no, it is ok to laugh at life.

(January 15, 2016 at 9:48 am)pool the great Wrote:

(January 15, 2016 at 9:34 am)Ben Davis Wrote:

---

 Yes, gender stereotypes should be challenged because there are institutionalised harms associated with them (e.g. misogyny, domestic abuse, child abuse, homophobia, transphobia).  

---

---

 I'd like to point out that gender stereotypes was not magically imposed by someone. These stereotypes(or rather characteristics) were formed as a result of thousands of years of evolution.  

---

For example:

Quote:Personality traits —

---

 For example, women are often expected to be passive, loving and caring, while men are usually expected to be aggressive, protective and dominant.  

---

The reason women are inherently passive is because of their relative physical weakness when compared with men, in an world without laws a women being blunt to a man will usually end bad. The loving and caring characteristics are because females are usually the ones that breast feed the child which creates an intimate relation with a mother and her child.
The aggressive nature of men are not because of a stereotype. It's because of their relative higher testosterone in their body which attributes to aggressiveness, protectiveness and dominance. This helped men, in the old times to fend off other ill-intended males from harming their mate and children.

I guess my point is, these characteristics are not a result of gender stereotyping, these characteristics were formed as a result of thousands of years of years lived in the wild and in the society. So is it really smart to challenge them?

Your statements about hormones driving stereotypes are well-put.

BUT - These stereotypes worked in illiterate hunter-gatherer societies which were always at war with other tribes.  The hormonal differences and gender-role differences were supported by evolution:  males got bigger and stronger and more aggressive because they are the ones who survived.  This, combined with misogynistic religious beliefs and female vulnerability during pregnancy, have kept females in the role of sex slaves - - as they still are, in some parts of the world.  And, it also restricts men - they lose the ability to express emotion, to show vulnerability, among many other things.
       Denying females equal person-hood removes an enormous pool of potential knowledge and progress from a culture.  Holding male power and aggression up as an ideal exacerbates violence against women, and causes more incidences of violent crime.  (The old "might means right" is just not a good thing in this day and age.)
       We need to dial back the harmful parts of old stereotypes, and support each other for our strengths and basic humanity.   

When I was a little girl, there were no after-school sports for girls - none at all.  When my Grandmother was a little girl, women were not allowed to work outside the home.   An unmarried woman was allowed to be a schoolteacher or a nurse or a maid - but had to quit work once she got married.  My Mother was allowed to get her own credit card in 1974.  Marital rape wasn't a recognized crime until 1993.  Equal wage for women still isn't a thing.

I think the old stereotypes needed to be dialed back.  I think greater gender freedom is a positive thing.

I have no clue what the question actually means. Challenge the stereotypes how exactly?

Stereotypes are pretty outdated and incorrect even when looking at them broadly, the inaccuracies only increase as we move towards a more individual level. As far as I am concerned, I don't see any point to stereotypes at all, because all they do is give you a very wrong assumption of another person under the guise of forming a general idea about them.

Also, I don't understand the connection between those ISIS violence related articles and this topic. What does that have to do with stereotypes?

Pretty sure that people challenge gender stereotypes all day long regardless of whether or not they should and in the absence of any specific effort to do so....just by being themselves.

On an individual level, there's nothing wrong with people choosing to live by traditional gender roles

It's the extremes of gender roles that need challenging, when it becomes (for men) a stupid hypermasculine pissing contest about who is the biggest man. Behaviour like that brings out the asshole in a lot of men more often than it should. The pressure on women to look and act a particular way is already widely discussed, and it still needs addressing.

I'd like to ask a question to my fellow males:

Why does some people, especially men, despise some qualities of masculinity such as aggression and competitiveness?

Isn't that what makes us men? Why should we deny these qualities that makes us who we are? I mean like I don't see, and I don't mean to offend anyone, any females despising their feminine qualities or anyone advocating them to be more masculine?
Is it really a bad thing to be a man?

(January 15, 2016 at 12:06 pm)pool the great Wrote: Isn't that what makes us men?

I think your and my definitions of 'man' are worlds apart, because in my funny little world what makes a man a man is a penis and/or male gender identity. I really don't see why you need to possess specific personality traits to be considered a man, but...hey.


Point being, be you. If you're aggressive and dominant or whatever, fucking go for it. Good for you. Just don't go around telling other people what they're supposed to be. That's called being an asshole.

Gender Stereotypes are fucking bullshit, and the people who perpetuate them are fucking cunts who should have their faces kicked in with steel toed boots.

Does fixing a toilet require a fucking penis? No? Then yes, obviously women can do it.
Does being a nurse require breasts or a vagina? No? Then obviously men can do it.
Does being a good parent require a vagina and breasts? Fuck no. Then obviously men can do it. Two of my sons are wonderful fathers.
Is a penis one of the tools people use when working construction? I certainly hope fucking not.

Pretty simple stuff. I don't give a flying fuck about what people think the way things 'should be' are.

Don't be so hostile Vic, I'm asking a reasonable question to my fellow males. This is just a discussion and I'm trying to keep it civil.

(January 15, 2016 at 12:21 pm)pool the great Wrote: Don't be so hostile Vic, I'm asking a reasonable question to my fellow males. This is just a discussion and I'm trying to keep it civil.

You ain't seen hostile yet

Your question is hardly reasonable, and you're the one refusing to discuss. But, again, hey...