(January 23, 2016 at 10:56 pm)Sheed1980 Wrote:

(January 23, 2016 at 7:44 pm)Constable Dorfl Wrote: No. What you need to understand is that if you want to demonstrate this as a fact you will need to show evidence of this happening. At the moment all you are giving us is constant baseless assertions that this is fact, you are not showing evidence, you are simply stating something is true without showing it to be true, in the hopes that constant repetition will either make it true or make us believe that it is true.

Well, unfortunately for you, we've grown beyond the idea that somebody in authority saying something automatically makes that assertion true. We look at ideas and weigh them based on the merits provided to us for those ideas. And when an idea is provided to us without supporting merits, like what you've been doing for the last while, we reject it as being without merit.

There are so many things about Islam that come from the Qur'an and hadith that prove Islam as the true religion. Of course I call it fact where u call it assertion. But as I've mentioned in some of my previous entries there are too many examples of what are called miracles of the Qur'an to be just coincidental but are absolute fact

Can you list some things that you consider to be miracles?

(January 23, 2016 at 11:24 pm)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote:

(January 23, 2016 at 10:56 pm)Sheed1980 Wrote: There are so many things about Islam that come from the Qur'an and hadith that prove Islam as the true religion. Of course I call it fact where u call it assertion. But as I've mentioned in some of my previous entries there are too many examples of what are called miracles of the Qur'an to be just coincidental but are absolute fact

Can you list some things that you consider to be miracles?

Well first tell me do u want scientific, astronomical, linguistic, or mathematical miracles of the Qur'an?

(January 23, 2016 at 10:56 pm)Sheed1980 Wrote:

(January 23, 2016 at 7:44 pm)Constable Dorfl Wrote: No. What you need to understand is that if you want to demonstrate this as a fact you will need to show evidence of this happening. At the moment all you are giving us is constant baseless assertions that this is fact, you are not showing evidence, you are simply stating something is true without showing it to be true, in the hopes that constant repetition will either make it true or make us believe that it is true.

Well, unfortunately for you, we've grown beyond the idea that somebody in authority saying something automatically makes that assertion true. We look at ideas and weigh them based on the merits provided to us for those ideas. And when an idea is provided to us without supporting merits, like what you've been doing for the last while, we reject it as being without merit.

There are so many things about Islam that come from the Qur'an and hadith that prove Islam as the true religion. Of course I call it fact where u call it assertion. But as I've mentioned in some of my previous entries there are too many examples of what are called miracles of the Qur'an to be just coincidental but are absolute fact

What does the quran say that shows islam is true? What independent evidence is there to corroborate this?

You see, sheed, your problem is the same one faced by chritians, shintos, followers of traditional Ojibwe beliefs and all other religious followers. You make truth claims without showing supporting evidence, and that is why when I say your religious claims are baseless assertions, I am correct.

Who exactly gets to say what is a miracle?

It seems to be entirely subjective. If someone personally finds something so remarkable that they think it can't have a "normal" explanation, then they deem it a miracle. One man's miracle is another man's easily explained phenomenon.

It doesn't matter if part of the book is true, or even astoundingly true, it doesn't validate the rest of the book. That is what I call the "wow" fallacy. Someone has impressed you so much that you then believe absolutely everything else they have to say without question. That is just being gullible.

(January 23, 2016 at 11:24 pm)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote:

(January 23, 2016 at 10:56 pm)Sheed1980 Wrote: There are so many things about Islam that come from the Qur'an and hadith that prove Islam as the true religion. Of course I call it fact where u call it assertion. But as I've mentioned in some of my previous entries there are too many examples of what are called miracles of the Qur'an to be just coincidental but are absolute fact

Can you list some things that you consider to be miracles?

Same logic people with other books and god claims use "POOF, my god did it" (insert gap answer here).

Surviving an "oh shit" nearly getting killed moment. Misdiagnosis by doctor. Deciding you are tired of being addicted to something. Seeing shapes of religious icons in toast and trees and clouds. "I was lonely and found other people who believe in fairy tales".

Standard excuse all religions give. The intellectual laziness of inserting magic into what could be explained with a natural answer without a sky hero.

(January 25, 2016 at 6:57 am)Constable Dorfl Wrote:

(January 23, 2016 at 10:56 pm)Sheed1980 Wrote: There are so many things about Islam that come from the Qur'an and hadith that prove Islam as the true religion. Of course I call it fact where u call it assertion. But as I've mentioned in some of my previous entries there are too many examples of what are called miracles of the Qur'an to be just coincidental but are absolute fact

What does the quran say that shows islam is true? What independent evidence is there to corroborate this?

You see, sheed, your problem is the same one faced by chritians, shintos, followers of traditional Ojibwe beliefs and all other religious followers. You make truth claims without showing supporting evidence, and that is why when I say your religious claims are baseless assertions, I am correct.

Well I've mentioned the numerous miracles of the Qur'an. But first off I know we as humans were created by someone who is obviously a higher being than we are. So with just for example some of the astronomical knowledge of our universe, listed in the Qur'an. Whoever's words these are placed in a scripture in the 7th century, when telescopes, satellites, computers etc didn't yet exist, and these words describe exactly what is happening in our universe today, over 1,400 years later, which we can and have verified and confirmed as true due to our technology, This tells me that someone, who put these words together is the One who created us all. So He is the One, alone I worship. See Allah gives us free will to believe and accept His guidance or disbelieve and reject Him. But with His mercy He doesn't just say "believe in my word" He also gives us many examples that support and prove His word as true, that we as people can verify even further than people before our time. Same thing when telescopes and microscopes were invented before our time. People used these inventions and were able to see that whoever put the Qur'an into effect knew exactly what they were talking about. And in the 7th century, when no human had this knowledge, this word could only come from our creator Allah Almighty

I literally just said why this argument is invalid, on this same page.

You can't imagine any other way that they came by this information. What you can imagine doesn't affect what is true.

(January 25, 2016 at 9:39 am)Sheed1980 Wrote:

(January 25, 2016 at 6:57 am)Constable Dorfl Wrote: What does the quran say that shows islam is true? What independent evidence is there to corroborate this?

You see, sheed, your problem is the same one faced by chritians, shintos, followers of traditional Ojibwe beliefs and all other religious followers. You make truth claims without showing supporting evidence, and that is why when I say your religious claims are baseless assertions, I am correct.

Well I've mentioned the numerous miracles of the Qur'an. But first off I know we as humans were created by someone who is obviously a higher being than we are. So with just for example some of the astronomical knowledge of our universe, listed in the Qur'an. Whoever's words these are placed in a scripture in the 7th century, when telescopes, satellites, computers etc didn't yet exist, and these words describe exactly what is happening in our universe today, over 1,400 years later, which we can and have verified and confirmed as true due to our technology, This tells me that someone, who put these words together is the One who created us all. So He is the One, alone I worship. See Allah gives us free will to believe and accept His guidance or disbelieve and reject Him. But with His mercy He doesn't just say "believe in my word" He also gives us many examples that support and prove His word as true, that we as people can verify even further than people before our time. Same thing when telescopes and microscopes were invented before our time. People used these inventions and were able to see that whoever put the Qur'an into effect knew exactly what they were talking about. And in the 7th century, when no human had this knowledge, this word could only come from our creator Allah Almighty

Circular reasoning. Do you just regurgitate crap you like, or do you actually read our posts at all? 

CIRCULAR REASONING, is what every religion does. Everyone points to their holy writings and so what. Try debating  a Christian or Jew or Hindu sometime. I bet they can point to "miracles" too.

"The book I like says"...... Yes and so what? Get in line take a number.

(January 25, 2016 at 1:29 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(January 25, 2016 at 9:39 am)Sheed1980 Wrote: Well I've mentioned the numerous miracles of the Qur'an. But first off I know we as humans were created by someone who is obviously a higher being than we are. So with just for example some of the astronomical knowledge of our universe, listed in the Qur'an. Whoever's words these are placed in a scripture in the 7th century, when telescopes, satellites, computers etc didn't yet exist, and these words describe exactly what is happening in our universe today, over 1,400 years later, which we can and have verified and confirmed as true due to our technology, This tells me that someone, who put these words together is the One who created us all. So He is the One, alone I worship. See Allah gives us free will to believe and accept His guidance or disbelieve and reject Him. But with His mercy He doesn't just say "believe in my word" He also gives us many examples that support and prove His word as true, that we as people can verify even further than people before our time. Same thing when telescopes and microscopes were invented before our time. People used these inventions and were able to see that whoever put the Qur'an into effect knew exactly what they were talking about. And in the 7th century, when no human had this knowledge, this word could only come from our creator Allah Almighty

Circular reasoning. Do you just regurgitate crap you like, or do you actually read our posts at all? 

CIRCULAR REASONING, is what every religion does. Everyone points to their holy writings and so what. Try debating  a Christian or Jew or Hindu sometime. I bet they can point to "miracles" too.

"The book I like says"...... Yes and so what? Get in line take a number.

Different people sometimes ask the same questions that were already asked. Just because it's a different person doesn't mean I'm going to change my answers. So I am sorry u feel this way that u do towards my belief. But just as I can't change u, there is nothing u can say to change me as well

(January 25, 2016 at 2:25 pm)Sheed1980 Wrote:

(January 25, 2016 at 1:29 pm)Brian37 Wrote: Circular reasoning. Do you just regurgitate crap you like, or do you actually read our posts at all? 

CIRCULAR REASONING, is what every religion does. Everyone points to their holy writings and so what. Try debating  a Christian or Jew or Hindu sometime. I bet they can point to "miracles" too.

"The book I like says"...... Yes and so what? Get in line take a number.

Different people sometimes ask the same questions that were already asked. Just because it's a different person doesn't mean I'm going to change my answers. So I am sorry u feel this way that u do towards my belief. But just as I can't change u, there is nothing u can say to change me as well

I feel sorry for you that you are so closed minded and so narcissistic about an old book of myth. What scares you so much that you feel the need to cling to an old book and claims of sky heros? I live my life fine without belief in fictional beings.

Now how selfish of you to think my rejection of your religion and god belief is a personal attack on you. You need to learn the difference between your rights, and the separate issue of having the ability to demonstrate what you claim is evidence based and credible beyond your own personal bias. 

You certainly by law in the secular west don't have to change your answers. Neither do Christians or Jews or Hindus. They have as much evidence for their claims as you do for yours.

The earth is 4 billion years old. The universe is 14 billion years old. Those are scientific facts not up for debate. Religion started in an age of scientific ignorance. It was understandable people made bad guesses and started religions as a result of their scientific ignorance, but we know better now.

You can make claims about your book and about your hero all you want but nobody is under any obligation by law to buy your arguments, and most certainly not under any obligation to refrain from telling you why your claims are wrong.

LEARN the difference between legal human rights, and the separate issue of being able to prove what you claim through an unbias neutral process, which you are NOT using. None of us here are treating you differently than any other person with a different book or different god claim. Get in line, take a number.