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If Allah has a plan, what is the point of Dua?
#1
If Allah has a plan, what is the point of Dua?
Allah already knows what will happen and it's all part of a grand scheme. So why make Dua (supplementary prayers)? Are we hoping to change the mind of Allah by praying? Have Allah cure us of the illness or cancer that was given to us, by it, as part of our personalized plan perhaps?

Allah gives a human cancer and then we beg extra hard for our Cancer to go away. That's so egotistical. Remind me, what was the point of cancer again?

Oh right, to test us in this Dunya. Why can't humanity have less painful tests? Like an exam maybe? An exam on Quran before entering Jannah perhaps?

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#2
RE: If Allah has a plan, what is the point of Dua?
'Pray, v. To ask that the laws of the universe be annulled in behalf of a single petitioner, confessedly unworthy.' - Ambrose Bierce.

Boru
‘Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.’ Ralph Waldo Emerson
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#3
RE: If Allah has a plan, what is the point of Dua?
(January 18, 2016 at 7:49 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: 'Pray, v. To ask that the laws of the universe be annulled in behalf of a single petitioner, confessedly unworthy.' - Ambrose Bierce.

Boru
I love that definition. I think I'll borrow it. The next time someone says they'll pray for me I'll utter those words.

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#4
RE: If Allah has a plan, what is the point of Dua?
I was told you're supposed to pray to find out what Yahweh/Allah's purpose for your life is. not to ask for stuff. It goes along with the idea that it's all about him.
Poe's Law: "Without a winking smiley or other blatant display of humor, it is impossible to create a parody of Fundamentalism that SOMEONE won't mistake for the real thing."

10 Christ-like figures that predate Jesus. Link shortened to Chris ate Jesus for some reason...
http://listverse.com/2009/04/13/10-chris...ate-jesus/

Good video to watch, if you want to know how common the Jesus story really is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88GTUXvp-50

A list of biblical contradictions from the infallible word of Yahweh.
http://infidels.org/library/modern/jim_m...tions.html

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#5
RE: If Allah has a plan, what is the point of Dua?
[Image: cmimg_12753.gif]


"Please allah....make it be that the man in front of me has not eaten baked beans for lunch!"
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#6
RE: If Allah has a plan, what is the point of Dua?
First Allah [swt] hasn't determined everything per my belief. For example, he is yet to know the patient and those who strive hard among people, although there are some people who he knew very well their path and hence chose them as Prophets and Guides because of the test in a previous world.

Second of Allah [swt] works with the system as is. I pray for example that we find solutions to the problems we are facing in the world like the problems I learned about in political science ( I studied it for two years in university).

I pray to Allah [swt] as is. And I pray that he works through his chosen Guide and his friends, in ways that will help bring peace to the world and stability.

And I pray for guidance, will power, and sight seeing power, and other stuff.

I don't pray for God to act in a way that goes against the way of the system he has put in place.
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#7
RE: If Allah has a plan, what is the point of Dua?
(January 18, 2016 at 8:55 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: First Allah [swt] hasn't determined everything per my belief. For example, he is yet to know the patient and those who strive hard among people, although there are some people who he knew very well their path and hence chose them as Prophets and Guides because of the test in a previous world.
So, sometimes he knows and sometimes he doesn't...but largely he's just an observer in that regard.

Quote:Second of Allah [swt] works with the system as is. I pray for example that we find solutions to the problems we are facing in the world like the problems I learned about in political science ( I studied it for two years in university).
Breathtakingingly disappointing.  I have to work with the system I've got...but I'm a lowly human worm.  If I had an ounce of divine ability I wouldn't excuse my inaction on the system as-is...I couldn't.  Strangely, after recognizing how limited we must be in comparison to a god, how constrained -we are- by the system as-is...people still seem to be out there, improving those things.....while god plays peeper as per the above.

Quote:I pray to Allah [swt] as is. And I pray that he works through his chosen Guide and his friends, in ways that will help bring peace to the world and stability.

And I pray for guidance, will power, and sight seeing power, and other stuff.

I don't pray for God to act in a way that goes against the way of the system he has put in place.

-and how is all that praying going?  Did we get world peace and stability.... and I just failed to notice?  Thanks for the solid, I guess...I think, though, that if you wanted those things you wouldn't be praying for them. You'd be doing something, like all of the rest of we lowly worms under the lazy gaze of your god.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#8
RE: If Allah has a plan, what is the point of Dua?
If your prayer is answered then shouldn't that affect the free will of others? If you pray that your interview goes well and you get the job wouldn't that have meant Allah had to suspend free will of the interviewers? If Allah answers your prayer and wants you to have that job, after all, shouldn't you still get the job even if you do really badly compared to the other candidates? If more than one candidate is praying to Allah then that means Allah has to chose one candidate over another, which is awkward because that person is wanting to affect the plan Allah had for another person. Does Allah give the job to the person who did more Dua or not?

Now, I don't know about you, but my understanding of plans is that they require a certain degree of control to be properly executed. So if I pray I'm wanting to affect Allah's plan, and potentially change the plan Allah had for other people (since my prayer being answered may cause a chain reaction). Prayer is actually really complicated - and confusing - a lot more complicated and confusing than people make it out to be. If prayers are answered than can we really say that there is free will?

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#9
RE: If Allah has a plan, what is the point of Dua?
Exactly, prayers which request any kind of change are totally at odds with an all powerful being who already has the best possible plan in place. In fact, by asking for change, you're telling God you don't think his plan is good enough. You're either saying you're more observant than him, wiser than him, or else your personal whims should be considered more highly.

This is what I mean about religious views not even having to be internally consistent. Say for example that I say the Quran is the word of God, and it's also not the word of God. That is a much more obvious contradiction, but I can still hold it as my belief and call myself a Muslim. If I'm not allowed to have those beliefs, I could similarly strip most theists of their beliefs on the same grounds. Just because the inconsistencies are a little deeper and less obvious, it doesn't stop them being there.
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#10
RE: If Allah has a plan, what is the point of Dua?
Life is not about God; it's about us.

The plan is already going & being executed; actually we do know the end, even from now :

If you want it from God's book :

(Sura 21 Verse 104 ) The Day when We will fold the heaven like the folding of a [written] sheet for the records. As We began the first creation, We will repeat it. [That is] a promise binding upon Us. Indeed, We will do it.

Or from the mouth of humans :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Crunch

The plan is already there.

He even told Moses :


(Sura 20 Verse 13 ) And I have chosen you, so listen to what is revealed [to you].
( 14 ) Indeed, I am Allah. There is no deity except Me, so worship Me and establish prayer for My remembrance.
( 15 ) Indeed, the Hour is coming - I almost conceal it - so that every soul may be recompensed according to that for which it strives.


It's all about us being tested in this life, then sleep to wake up at the hour : when judgement comes.
God already knows, he already won, he already owns.

But us; it's all about us.
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