Sorry but I don't find the genre interesting enough to wade through yet another. Clearly an NDE is a private experience, not an empirical one. So what goes on in the head of the self described 'nearly dead' person doesn't tell us anything about the lay of the land 'out there'. But they do tell us about that persons experience, and if there is enough commonality between such accounts we might get an insight into some feature of psychology which is common in people. Or not.

(January 28, 2016 at 9:17 pm)Whateverist the White Wrote: Sorry but I don't find the genre interesting enough to wade through yet another.  Clearly an NDE is a private experience, not an empirical one.  So what goes on in the head of the self described  'nearly dead' person doesn't tell us anything about the lay of the land 'out there'.  But they do tell us about that persons experience, and if there is enough commonality between such accounts we might get an insight into some feature of psychology which is common in people.  Or not.

Well I hope that you would take the time to at least read through it before forming a conclusion. Like I said, this is one of the most interesting experiences I've come across. It can't hurt to at least be aware of it. At least after reading it you can say you have read it and didn't sway you, or maybe it will.

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(January 28, 2016 at 9:17 pm)houseofcantor Wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTFVMMCwsss

Cool song, I've never heard it before. I used to talk with someone on another form where I live in Madison WI the user name lunatic fringe, and have to guess they probably took that name from this song.

What did you think of Howard Storm's story?

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(January 28, 2016 at 9:08 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote:

(January 28, 2016 at 8:55 pm)scoobysnack Wrote: There is the whole theory that DMT excretes from the pineal gland into the brain as the brain dies, and creates hallucinations, which I've read about. What NDEs and out of body experiences suggest is that consciousness can exist outside of the brain or body. Please read the story and let me know what you think. There are also veridical NDEs which I'll talk about later.

The case of out of body experiences is equivocal; there is nothing about OBEs that couldn't just as easily occur within the body.   OBEs 'suggest' consciousness can exist outside the brain in the same way that dreams of flying suggest we can fly.  The experience is not evidence that the experience is veridical.

Veridical NDEs are a different matter, and the number of them is so few that it's near impossible to conclude anything based on them.  The case of Pam Reynolds can be debated at length, and that's about the best it gets.

I guess in the end perception creates reality, whether true or not. Two people can look at something yet come to completely different conclusions which are equally real to them personally. It could be argued that perception of reality is more real to the individual than actuality, but since the perception is how our consciousness at that moment perceives it, it becomes real to us at that time. So there could be a point in time where you become disillusioned with your perceived reality, but are trapped and can either accept or fight it. This happened to Howard Storm, where he knew he must be hallucinating, but for him it was real and unexpected, and had to deal with it since there was no escape. You could say it was being stuck in a dream, but the key thing is he was stuck, whatever it was. I tend to believe he traveled outside his body with his soul and into the spiritual realm which took time to realize.

That's cool that you know about veridical NDE's. Look forward to talking about the examples I have found.

Wikipedia Wrote:Storm concedes there is no medical evidence that he ever died, as there was no doctor in the room to confirm that he was dead. Storm later awoke back in his body in the hospital room, and a nurse walked in and said that a doctor has finally arrived, and the surgery will now be performed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_Storm_%28author%29

Sounds like a Shit Storm.

Yep, just read wiki also. No documentation of NDE. This sounds like total fabrication/fantasy. But then so is god so there ya go.

It's enough to fool believers, M.H.  But then, they desperately crave to be fooled!

Quote:Before his near-death experience, Howard Storm at http://www.howardstorm.com was a Professor of Art at Northern Kentucky University, was not a very pleasant man by his own admission. He was an avowed atheist and was hostile to every form of religion and those who practiced it. He often would use rage to control everyone around him and he didn’t find joy in anything. Anything that wasn’t seen, touched or felt, he had no faith in. He knew with certainty that the material world was the full extent of everything that was. He considered all belief systems associated with religion to be fantasies for people to deceive themselves with. Beyond what science said, there was nothing else. But then on June 1, 1985, at the age of 38, Howard Storm’s had a near-death experience due to a perforation of the stomach and his life was since forever changed. His near-death experience is one of the most profound, if not the most profound, afterlife experience I have ever documented. His life was so immensely changed after his near-death experience, he resigned as a professor and devoted his time attending the United Theological Seminary to become a United Church of Christ minister. Today, Howard Storm is presently happily married to his wife Marcia and is Pastor of the Covington United Church of Christ in Covington, Ohio. During his past time he has maintained his passion for painting but now, unlike in his past, he paints with a God state of mind which raises his paintings to a whole other level. On this website Pastor Storm shares a unique look at his paintings and the effect Jesus Christ has on his daily life and on his paintings. The following is the account of Pastor Howard Storm's near-death experience reprinted by permission.

Sounds like a right cunt, doesn't look like his alleged NDE changed him very much at all -- assuming he's not lying about it to massage his market, which seems to be the case.

"Paints with a God state of mind"? Nothing says art like preconceived constraints. The dumbfuck clearly doesn't understand art or spirituality.

(January 28, 2016 at 10:15 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote:

Wikipedia Wrote:Storm concedes there is no medical evidence that he ever died, as there was no doctor in the room to confirm that he was dead. Storm later awoke back in his body in the hospital room, and a nurse walked in and said that a doctor has finally arrived, and the surgery will now be performed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_Storm_%28author%29

Yes, he was not declared clinically dead, but that doesn't mean much. There's no evidence proving the crimes I committed and got away with as a youth, yet I can promise you they still happened. I'm far from a perfect person, and I know that no one can claim to be. Another aspect is perception of time, which is vastly different than how we measure it in the material world. One day equaling a rotation of the earth is only relevant to those on earth.

For me the most interesting point of this story is that he considered himself an atheist and took pride in that ideology, yet somehow ended up moving away from that and turning towards something he never believed to be truth. That's what's makes this story so interesting. I'm sure some would say he's just a fool. The only guarantee in life is death. You can even get away without paying taxes, but we are all mortal, and death will come. For me I think it's interesting to know about death to learn the lessons, before it comes to me, so I can grow in knowledge.

(January 28, 2016 at 10:38 pm)scoobysnack Wrote: Yes, he was not declared clinically dead, but that doesn't mean much. There's no evidence proving the crimes I committed and got away with as a youth, yet I can promise you they still happened. I'm far from a perfect person, and I know that no one can claim to be. Another aspect is perception of time, which is vastly different than how we measure it in the material world. One day equaling a rotation of the earth is only relevant to those on earth.

For me the most interesting point of this story is that he considered himself an atheist and took pride in that ideology, yet somehow ended up moving away from that and turning towards something he never believed to be truth. That's what's makes this story so interesting. I'm sure some would say he's just a fool. The only guarantee in life is death. You can even get away without paying taxes, but we are all mortal, and death will come. For me I think it's interesting to know about death to learn the lessons, before it comes to me, so I can grow in knowledge.

You want so desperately to believe that you'll accept a near death story from someone who wasn't near death. The truth is no obstacle to such eagerness.

(January 28, 2016 at 10:47 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote:

(January 28, 2016 at 10:38 pm)scoobysnack Wrote: Yes, he was not declared clinically dead, but that doesn't mean much. There's no evidence proving the crimes I committed and got away with as a youth, yet I can promise you they still happened. I'm far from a perfect person, and I know that no one can claim to be. Another aspect is perception of time, which is vastly different than how we measure it in the material world. One day equaling a rotation of the earth is only relevant to those on earth.

For me the most interesting point of this story is that he considered himself an atheist and took pride in that ideology, yet somehow ended up moving away from that and turning towards something he never believed to be truth. That's what's makes this story so interesting. I'm sure some would say he's just a fool. The only guarantee in life is death. You can even get away without paying taxes, but we are all mortal, and death will come. For me I think it's interesting to know about death to learn the lessons, before it comes to me, so I can grow in knowledge.

You want so desperately to believe that you'll accept a near death story from someone who wasn't near death.  The truth is no obstacle to such eagerness.

Well I wouldn't say that. I would say that I'm open to all possibilities. I guess it depends on one's perspective of near death. There are many people who were declared clinically dead and came back. In the end it all comes down to what you want to believe, since the truth will likely be different that what we all expected, including myself.

Here's another interesting video. I'd be happy to read any links you post as well by the way. Like I said, I'm open to other interpretations. All I'm posting is what I've come across so far.

To hell and back:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NRub9z8hPA