(January 31, 2016 at 7:45 am)robvalue Wrote: I'm all for sharing experiences. But experiences are not conclusions, at least not ones that offer any credibility.

All I really need to know from someone is "do you have any evidence?" If the answer is no, it doesn't really matter what else they have to say. No amount of waffle and anecdotes constitutes evidence of anything.

But by all means enjoy sharing experiences. Don't let me stop you.

If someone could tell me why I should give any credence to someone not presenting any evidence, I'd be interested to hear it.

This might be a better site for you to check out the scientific studies that have been conducted:

http://iands.org/research/important-rese...?task=view

Here's another example of an atheist who had his life transformed by his NDE. This is interesting because he was pronounced dead, and was dead for a few days. His body was in the morgue and came back to life when the doctor starting cutting into his abdomen to perform the autopsy. Check out this story:

http://www.near-death.com/science/eviden...-days.html

I don't see any evidence in any of those links. I see people talking about their NDEs, and a huge significance being put on people's lives changing. Where is the evidence that anything they claimed to experience is real?

People get declared dead but then turn out not to be. So what?

(January 31, 2016 at 12:39 pm)Cecelia Wrote:

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This all reminds me very much of a friend of mine who has her own religion (some might call it a cult.  The difference between the two has always been a thin line).  Only instead of basing her beliefs on Near Death Experience, she bases them on 'revelations' she gets while she's high.  She by no means considers herself a Christian.  

As an Atheist, I see little difference between her revelations (many of which contradict some of the NDE's, such as the whole Jesus bit) and the revelations of any of the NDE's.  What makes them any more credible?  

Now, people can share their experiences all they like.  But I think it's important to take a critical look at these experiences.  There's reasons for both groups to have had the experiences they did.  No god (or Goddess as in the case of my friend) is necessary.  If you look at experiences all over the world, you'll see they differ by region.  

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Quote: Now if someone in a remote village who's never heard of Jesus has an NDE featuring Jesus, I'd be very interested in that.  

Oh now, yes!  This ^.
Find an NDE story of someone from such a remote area that they had no awareness of any kind of the Judeo-Christian (and Muslim) concept of god.  Find someone from a remote Amazonian tribe or something, illiterate, never seen a TV, etc.   Have THAT person draw a picture of Jesus after the experience (or Allah, or an angel, or whoever) and somehow prove that nobody coached them or made up the tale FOR them in order to make money and preach, and that would be worth a second look.  
      Really, as some other posters have said - - have the person awaken knowing things they could not possibly have known before the NDE.  That's what we need.  People make up stories to post about their gawd all the time.  Facebook is flooded with xtian lies.  To hell with the stories, give us proof.

(January 31, 2016 at 2:46 pm)robvalue Wrote: I don't see any evidence in any of those links. I see people talking about their NDEs, and a huge significance being put on people's lives changing. Where is the evidence that anything they claimed to experience is real?

All will be revealed in time. Considering the time between my post and your reply, you couldn't have read through both of those links.

I'll talk about the veridical NDEs if you want to hear about that. Those are when people witness events away from their body while unconsious that are later verified as true by other witnesses. Like being in a hospital room, but witnessing a doctor in surgery that is verified as to happened by that doctor.

I read them, there is no evidence. Please point me to the evidence.

Actually I give up. I feel like a broken record.

(January 31, 2016 at 2:51 pm)scoobysnack Wrote:

(January 31, 2016 at 2:46 pm)robvalue Wrote:

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I don't see any evidence in any of those links. I see people talking about their NDEs, and a huge significance being put on people's lives changing. Where is the evidence that anything they claimed to experience is real?

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All will be revealed in time.

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Considering the time between my post and your reply, you couldn't have read through both of those links.

I'll talk about the veridical NDEs if you want to hear about that. Those are when people witness events away from their body while unconsious that are later verified as true by other witnesses. Like being in a hospital room, but witnessing a doctor in surgery that is verified as to happened by that doctor.

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Pompous smarmy egotistical asshole troll.  "I'm so much better than all of you, and I'll dispense brilliant enlightenment IN MY OWN TIME, and your poor little minds will be blown."  Strutting pigeon on a chess board.  Scientific proof will be accepted.  You clearly didn't come here prepared to present anything other than fantasies and delusions, expecting to be worshiped for your oh-so obviously advanced spiritual state.

Jesus Ballstains, interviewing people about how their hallucinations seemed to them when their brain was on the brink of being fucked over, and just believing it really happened, is no kind of science. It's being willfully ignorantly credulous. It's interesting, nothing more.

It's perfectly believable that nearly dying could change anyone's life. It does nothing to support any crazy shit they happened to have experienced during the process.

There's any number of plausible explanations as to why people have the experiences they do.

Just look at my friend. Most Christians will look at her experiences, and because her beliefs not only don't line up with Christianity but conflict with them (she believes Jesus was a malevolent being who wanted to scare people into worshiping him) they'll gladly 'explain it away'. But they won't consider for a moment that they can just as easily explain away all these other NDE's that DO line up with their views. I'm sure for her it's a coping mechanism. But at the very least she's not threatening people with eternal punishment if they don't follow her religion or believe in her Goddess. I'm sure others have had similar coping mechanisms.

If an NDE must line up with your beliefs to be true, you're not really interested in NDE's. If experiences that don't line up with your views can't be seen as legitimate, there's no reason for the NDE"s that to linde up with them to be seen as legit.

Everything must be looked at with an unbiased eye.

Quote:All will be revealed in time.

Why not now?

Quote:Considering the time between my post and your reply, you couldn't have read through both of those links.

If rob says he's read them, he's read them.

Quote:I'll talk about the veridical NDEs if you want to hear about that. Those are when people witness events away from their body while unconscious [sic] that are later verified as true by other witnesses. Like being in a hospital room, but witnessing a doctor in surgery that is verified as to happened by that doctor.

Try to grasp the difference between a NDE and an OBE.

Boru

(January 31, 2016 at 2:43 pm)scoobysnack Wrote:

(January 31, 2016 at 7:45 am)robvalue Wrote: I'm all for sharing experiences. But experiences are not conclusions, at least not ones that offer any credibility.

All I really need to know from someone is "do you have any evidence?" If the answer is no, it doesn't really matter what else they have to say. No amount of waffle and anecdotes constitutes evidence of anything.

But by all means enjoy sharing experiences. Don't let me stop you.

If someone could tell me why I should give any credence to someone not presenting any evidence, I'd be interested to hear it.

This might be a better site for you to check out the scientific studies that have been conducted:

http://iands.org/research/important-rese...?task=view

Here's another example of an atheist who had his life transformed by his NDE. This is interesting because he was pronounced dead, and was dead for a few days. His body was in the morgue and came back to life when the doctor starting cutting into his abdomen to perform the autopsy. Check out this story:

http://www.near-death.com/science/eviden...-days.html

That second one...wasn't that a case on House M.D.? It was all caused by a type of brain aneurysm. Maybe Georgie should get his brain checked before he dies for good?

I'm being facetious, but him being dead for 3 days versus 3 minutes doesn't matter. Why? Because he came back.