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RE: Antitheism
February 3, 2016 at 6:49 am
(February 3, 2016 at 5:42 am)MTL Wrote: (February 3, 2016 at 5:22 am)Excited Penguin Wrote: What? I won't do it without your permission. But good to know you are hostile towards me. I won't bother you any further.
I was actually starting to give you some credibility,
and then you started with all this crap about how Deism is a non-starter and God and Religion are the same thing.
I can easily conceive of the idea of a God, a creator of all things, who never spoke to mankind, never left stone tablets on a mountaintop, never impregnated any virgins, never whispered in any prophet's ear.
I can conceive of the possibility that such a being might truly exist....however unlikely that might be.
I can also conceive of the possibility that no such being exists, of course, as well.
That's why I'm Agnostic.
But REGARDLESS of whether a God exists or not,
I think EVERYTHING mankind has come up with, ABOUT God, is likely nonsense.
You think you can conceive of it. But I don't think you can.
Try and describe such a God to me.
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RE: Antitheism
February 3, 2016 at 6:54 am
(February 3, 2016 at 4:41 am)Excited Penguin Wrote: If you are against religion, yet not against theism, that effectively means you are against non-theistic religions.
Nope.
I'm mainly against the 3 Abrahamic religions with are theistic. But not because of the theism.
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RE: Antitheism
February 3, 2016 at 6:56 am
(February 3, 2016 at 6:05 am)Excited Penguin Wrote: (February 3, 2016 at 5:43 am)robvalue Wrote: I'm not so much against people being theist as I am people brainwashing others into being theist. People aren't born that way.
That doesn't make any sense. Do you take issue with the brainwashing, or with the ideology being forced upon other people?
If you take issue with the brainwashing, then you might want to have a problem with everything society makes you do by way of law as well, for starters. Because that's textbook brainwashing as well.
If you take issue with the ideology being forced, you're an antitheist. Indoctrination is a better word, but this method stems from theism itself. Without the overarching authority figure no one would feel the need to accept what is being handed down uncritically.
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RE: Antitheism
February 3, 2016 at 6:57 am
(February 3, 2016 at 6:54 am)Evie Wrote: (February 3, 2016 at 4:41 am)Excited Penguin Wrote: If you are against religion, yet not against theism, that effectively means you are against non-theistic religions.
Nope.
I'm mainly against the 3 Abrahamic religions with are theistic. But not because of the theism.
I'll entertain you for now.
Because of what then?
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RE: Antitheism
February 3, 2016 at 6:58 am
(This post was last modified: February 3, 2016 at 6:59 am by The Grand Nudger.)
(February 3, 2016 at 6:46 am)Excited Penguin Wrote: (February 3, 2016 at 5:33 am)Rhythm Wrote: You think that everyone filling the pews believes? Been to mass recently? The institutions and observances have a life all their own, apart from belief, as the swarms of "cultural catholics" such as myself ought to make clear. The majority believes. If they didn't, the non-believing minority wouldn't feel the pressure to lie about it, or put up with it for that matter. You're distorting the facts to fit to your views, just so you can continue to argue with me. You're being irrational. I can't possibly win an argument with you guys if you're going to be like that. I have better things to do. b-mine in mine.
That's nice, and does any of that have anything to do with the bolded portion of my statement, that you quoted in response to? Was there an actual objection, or just a half assed lead in to a limp wristed jab? 
Quote:Yes, he does. The concept of god doesn't make any sense on its own.
Well, clearly it makes sense all on it's own to Steve. Elaborate, -why- do you think that the concept of gods don't make sense without religion?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Antitheism
February 3, 2016 at 6:58 am
(February 3, 2016 at 6:54 am)Evie Wrote: (February 3, 2016 at 4:41 am)Excited Penguin Wrote: If you are against religion, yet not against theism, that effectively means you are against non-theistic religions.
Nope.
I'm mainly against the 3 Abrahamic religions with are theistic. But not because of the theism.
Before you answer my previous post, keep in mind that theism is what those 3 Abrahamic religions you talk about are centered around.
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RE: Antitheism
February 3, 2016 at 7:15 am
(February 3, 2016 at 6:58 am)Rhythm Wrote: b-mine in mine.
That's nice, and does any of that have anything to do with the bolded portion of my statement, that you quoted in response to? You said The institutions and observances have a life all their own, apart from belief, as the swarms of "cultural catholics" such as myself ought to make clear.
In this statement there is the implication that belief isn't the only problem, that what belief created by manifesting itself overtime has become a problem as well. I'm saying that if you take care of the root cause of the first problem, you'll be solving the second one as well.
Quote:Quote:Yes, he does. The concept of god doesn't make any sense on its own.
Well, clearly it makes sense all on it's own to Steve. Elaborate, -why- do you think that the concept of gods don't make sense without religion?
(Emphasis mine.)
Because religion is the only thing that gives it meaning. Without religion, it doesn't have any meaning.
Not sure how much more I can elaborate without giving the concept meaning myself, which would only serve to prove my point.
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RE: Antitheism
February 3, 2016 at 7:21 am
(This post was last modified: February 3, 2016 at 7:22 am by The Grand Nudger.)
(February 3, 2016 at 7:15 am)Excited Penguin Wrote: You said The institutions and observances have a life all their own, apart from belief, as the swarms of "cultural catholics" such as myself ought to make clear.
In this statement there is the implication that belief isn't the only problem, that what belief created by manifesting itself overtime has become a problem as well. I'm saying that if you take care of the root cause of the first problem, you'll be solving the second one as well. That's right, that's what I said. There isn't any such implication, you just couldn't find anything in what I said to bitch about, but really wanted to hit the quote button, lol.
Quote:Because religion is the only thing that gives it meaning. Without religion, it doesn't have any meaning.
That's not elaboration, that's reassertion. I'm still no closer to understanding why you think this is true.
Quote:Not sure how much more I can elaborate without giving the concept meaning myself, which would only serve to prove my point.
Well, you could elaborate more by elaborating at all........
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Antitheism
February 3, 2016 at 7:47 am
(This post was last modified: February 3, 2016 at 8:07 am by Excited Penguin.)
failed post. Starting over.
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RE: Antitheism
February 3, 2016 at 8:17 am
(This post was last modified: February 3, 2016 at 8:32 am by Excited Penguin.)
Quote: (February 3, 2016 at 7:15 am)Excited Penguin Wrote: You said The institutions and observances have a life all their own, apart from belief, as the swarms of "cultural catholics" such as myself ought to make clear.
In this statement there is the implication that belief isn't the only problem, that what belief created by manifesting itself overtime has become a problem as well. I'm saying that if you take care of the root cause of the first problem, you'll be solving the second one as well.
That's right, that's what I said. There isn't any such implication, you just couldn't find anything in what I said to bitch about, but really wanted to hit the quote button, lol. (Emphasis mine.)
Why did you feel the need to make that statement, then?
Quote:Quote:Because religion is the only thing that gives it meaning. Without religion, it doesn't have any meaning.
That's not elaboration, that's reassertion. I'm still no closer to understanding why you think this is true.
Theism is belief in God. The content of that belief within certain religions is what defines God. Deism is belief in God devoid of any content. It is grounded in theism, similar to the way atheism is. Without any content belief in God is simply belief. Pure belief(without any object of belief) doesn't exist. It's both inconceivable and an illusion created by language.
Quote:Quote:Not sure how much more I can elaborate without giving the concept meaning myself, which would only serve to prove my point.
Well, you could elaborate more by elaborating at all........
Let me know if further elaboration is needed.
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