Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: November 16, 2024, 6:28 am

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Gay, Catholic and Doing Fine
#1
Gay, Catholic and Doing Fine
I was doing a bit of reading on the subject of gay marriage, and I came across this short article by Joe Prever which was originally published at a blog called "Little Catholic Bubble". I hope it will provide the starting point for some interesting discussion.


I have heard a lot about how mean the Church is, and how bigoted, because she opposes gay marriage. How badly she misunderstands gay people, and how hostile she is towards us. My gut reaction to such things is: Are you freaking kidding me? Are we even talking about the same church?

When I go to Confession, I sometimes mention the fact that I'm gay, to give the priest some context. (And to spare him some confusion: Did you say 'locker room'? What were you doing in the women's...oh.) I've always gotten one of two responses: either compassion, encouragement, and admiration, because the celibate life is difficult and profoundly counter-cultural; or nothing at all, not even a ripple, as if I had confessed eating too much on Thanksgiving.

Of the two responses, my ego prefers the first -- who doesn't like thinking of themselves as some kind of hero? -- but the second might make more sense. Being gay doesn't mean I'm special or extraordinary. It just means that my life is not always easy. (Surprise!) And as my friend J. said when I told him recently about my homosexuality, "I guess if it wasn't that, it would have been something else." Meaning that nobody lives without a burden of one kind or another. As Rabbi Abraham Heschel said: "The man who has not suffered, what can he possibly know, anyway?"

Where are all these bigoted Catholics I keep hearing about? When I told my family a year ago, not one of them responded with anything but love and understanding. Nobody acted like I had a disease. Nobody started treating me differently or looking at me funny. The same is true of every one of the Catholic friends that I've told. They love me for who I am.

Actually, the only time I get shock or disgust or disbelief, the only time I've noticed people treating me differently after I tell them, is when I tell someone who supports the gay lifestyle. Celibacy?? You must be some kind of freak.

Hooray for tolerance of different viewpoints. I'm grateful to gay activists for some things -- making people people more aware of the prevalence of homosexuality, making homophobia less socially acceptable -- but they also make it more difficult for me to be understood, to be accepted for who I am and what I believe. If I want open-mindedness, acceptance, and understanding, I look to Catholics.

Is it hard to be gay and Catholic? Yes, because like everybody, I sometimes want things that are not good for me. The Church doesn't let me have those things, not because she's mean, but because she's a good mother. If my son or daughter wanted to eat sand I'd tell them: that's not what eating is for; it won't nourish you; it will hurt you. Maybe my daughter has some kind of condition that makes her like sand better than food, but I still wouldn't let her eat it. Actually, if she was young or stubborn enough, I might not be able to reason with her -- I might just have to make a rule against eating sand. Even if she thought I was mean.

So the Church doesn't oppose gay marriage because it's wrong; she opposes it because it's impossible, just as impossible as living on sand. The Church believes, and I believe, in a universe that means something, and in a God who made the universe -- made men and women, designed sex and marriage from the ground up. In that universe, gay marriage doesn't make sense. It doesn't fit with the rest of the picture, and we're not about to throw out the rest of the picture.

If you don't believe in these things, if you believe that men and women and sex and marriage are pretty much whatever we say they are, then okay: we don't have much left to talk about. That's not the world I live in.

So, yes, it's hard to be gay and Catholic -- it's hard to be anything and Catholic -- because I don't always get to do what I want. Show me a religion where you always get to do what you want and I'll show you a pretty shabby, lazy religion. Something not worth living or dying for, or even getting up in the morning for. That might be the kind of world John Lennon wanted, but John Lennon was kind of an idiot.

Would I trade in my Catholicism for a worldview where I get to marry a man? Would I trade in the Eucharist and the Mass and the rest of it? Being a Catholic means believing in a God who literally waits in the chapel for me, hoping I'll stop by just for ten minutes so he can pour out love and healing on my heart. Which is worth more -- all this, or getting to have sex with who I want? I wish everybody, straight or gay, had as beautiful a life as I have.

I know this isn't a satisfactory answer. I don't think any words could be. I try to make my life a satisfactory answer, to this question and to others: What are people for? What is love, and what does it look like? How do we get past our own selfishness so we can love God and our neighbors and ourselves?

It's a work in progress.


Joe Prever previously blogged under the pseudonum Steve Gershom. His blog may be found here.
Reply
#2
RE: Gay, Catholic and Doing Fine
The bigoted Catholics you're looking for are on the Supreme Court.
 The granting of a pardon is an imputation of guilt, and the acceptance a confession of it. 




Reply
#3
RE: Gay, Catholic and Doing Fine
(February 4, 2016 at 9:04 am)athrock Wrote: I hope it will provide the starting point for some interesting discussion.

Give it up, Asshole - that doesn't work anymore!
Mr. Hanky loves you!
Reply
#4
RE: Gay, Catholic and Doing Fine
Joe Prever wants other people to suffer just like him?
Reply
#5
RE: Gay, Catholic and Doing Fine
I had seen this before. I really admire someone who can live the celibate life for the sake of doing what they believe is the right thing. I only did it until I got married, and I thought *that* was hard and impressive.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly." 

-walsh
Reply
#6
RE: Gay, Catholic and Doing Fine
(February 4, 2016 at 9:27 am)Irrational Wrote: Joe Prever wants other people to suffer just like him?

This looks like a bit of a straw. Where did he say this?
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly." 

-walsh
Reply
#7
RE: Gay, Catholic and Doing Fine
(February 4, 2016 at 9:33 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote:
(February 4, 2016 at 9:27 am)Irrational Wrote: Joe Prever wants other people to suffer just like him?

This looks like a bit of a straw. Where did he say this?

Did you read this part?


Quote:So, yes, it's hard to be gay and Catholic -- it's hard to be anything and Catholic -- because I don't always get to do what I want. Show me a religion where you always get to do what you want and I'll show you a pretty shabby, lazy religion. Something not worth living or dying for, or even getting up in the morning for. That might be the kind of world John Lennon wanted, but John Lennon was kind of an idiot.

Would I trade in my Catholicism for a worldview where I get to marry a man? Would I trade in the Eucharist and the Mass and the rest of it? Being a Catholic means believing in a God who literally waits in the chapel for me, hoping I'll stop by just for ten minutes so he can pour out love and healing on my heart. Which is worth more -- all this, or getting to have sex with who I want? I wish everybody, straight or gay, had as beautiful a life as I have.
Reply
#8
RE: Gay, Catholic and Doing Fine
Ah yes, ye olde hate the sin not the sinner routine. It's hard to take seriously someone who simultaneously refers to John Lennon as a kind of idiot, yet wants us to accept his assertion that homosexuality is somehow as harmful as eating sand.
Reply
#9
RE: Gay, Catholic and Doing Fine
(February 4, 2016 at 9:36 am)Irrational Wrote:
(February 4, 2016 at 9:33 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: This looks like a bit of a straw. Where did he say this?

Did you read this part?


Quote:So, yes, it's hard to be gay and Catholic -- it's hard to be anything and Catholic -- because I don't always get to do what I want. Show me a religion where you always get to do what you want and I'll show you a pretty shabby, lazy religion. Something not worth living or dying for, or even getting up in the morning for. That might be the kind of world John Lennon wanted, but John Lennon was kind of an idiot.

Would I trade in my Catholicism for a worldview where I get to marry a man? Would I trade in the Eucharist and the Mass and the rest of it? Being a Catholic means believing in a God who literally waits in the chapel for me, hoping I'll stop by just for ten minutes so he can pour out love and healing on my heart. Which is worth more -- all this, or getting to have sex with who I want? I wish everybody, straight or gay, had as beautiful a life as I have.

He says he has a great life and wishes everyone had a life as great as his. That's a far cry from saying "he wants everyone to suffer."
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly." 

-walsh
Reply
#10
RE: Gay, Catholic and Doing Fine
(February 4, 2016 at 9:38 am)Cato Wrote: Ah yes, ye olde hate the sin not the sinner routine. It's hard to take seriously someone who simultaneously refers to John Lennon as a kind of idiot, yet wants us to accept his assertion that homosexuality is somehow as harmful as eating sand.

I agree that his comment about John was out of line. 

But I don't see the problem with hating the sin, not the sinner. We all do it, whether we use the words "sin/sinner" or not, is just a matter of semantics. 

If someone from your family did something you thought was immoral, like, if they got caught stealing something, you would still love them, right? You'd hate what they DID... the fact that they stole, but you would still love that person. There is nothing wrong with this concept. imho.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly." 

-walsh
Reply



Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Good exists - a Catholic comments Barry 619 58473 October 30, 2023 at 2:40 pm
Last Post: Bucky Ball
Tongue Scrupulosity - a Catholic disorder ? Bucky Ball 2 475 July 27, 2023 at 5:45 pm
Last Post: emjay
  Catholic Church against Cesarean section Fake Messiah 24 4901 August 14, 2021 at 11:49 am
Last Post: Fake Messiah
  [Not] Breaking news; Catholic church still hateful Nay_Sayer 18 2198 March 17, 2021 at 11:43 am
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  Catholic churches profit under COVID PPP brewer 19 1830 February 23, 2021 at 2:47 pm
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  Catholic Bishops statement on Biden. brewer 9 1109 January 25, 2021 at 3:46 pm
Last Post: arewethereyet
  Catholic priests jailed for abusing deaf children zebo-the-fat 14 3042 November 26, 2019 at 8:12 am
Last Post: Gawdzilla Sama
  This Is Stupid Even For A Catholic School BrianSoddingBoru4 16 2618 September 5, 2019 at 3:17 pm
Last Post: Pat Mustard
  The Catholic Church has a prayer app zebo-the-fat 5 854 January 21, 2019 at 11:00 am
Last Post: zebo-the-fat
  German Catholic Priests Abused More Than 3,600 Kids Fake Messiah 17 2630 September 14, 2018 at 5:43 pm
Last Post: Gawdzilla Sama



Users browsing this thread: 2 Guest(s)