(February 7, 2016 at 3:22 am)ApeNotKillApe Wrote: Nothing is the absence of physical law, it is chaos, and with chaos, anything can happen. A functional universe capable of producing conscious life can form without pre-existing laws to guide it's formation.

Nothing is the lack of anything including chaos.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

(February 7, 2016 at 4:40 am)robvalue Wrote: If everything must have a cause or "come from something", then we have infinite regression. That isn't necessarily impossible, just because we can't imagine such a thing. But it does rule out any hope of a big daddy being the final result.

If this is not the case, which seems far more likely based on scientific knowledge we already possess (some would say this is already known to be untrue) then there is no requirement for our reality to have "come from" anywhere. It could have always been, or it could have appeared for no reason at all.

God is just a mental pacifier. It doesn't answer any questions, it just moves them all back a bit.

Could have just appeared? Yeah that's got to be it.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

(February 7, 2016 at 4:48 am)popsthebuilder Wrote:

(February 6, 2016 at 11:56 pm)Homeless Nutter Wrote: Bullshit. Only a really stupid and ignorant person can make such uninformed statements. Have you seen "everything"? Do you know "everything"? No? Then how can you make judgements about "everything", you dumbass?

Also - if "everything came from something" - then where did your god come from, huh? You did say "everything", didn't you? So - by definition - that includes god, because "everything" includes everything. So tell me - who, or what shat your dumb god out? And shouldn't you be praying to THAT? Unless of course THAT also came from something, and that something - from yet something else, and so on, and so on - because "everything came from something".

Ugh, dumb people... SMH...

Ok jackass. Everything in the observable universe was formed from some other action. Those actions where set in motion by some sort of creative force. Only a fool with a very limited capacity for "free thought" would assume that just because the physical observable universe is bound by laws, that the creative force that bound the universe is too bound by it. If your little mind can't wrap itself around a thing being infinite or encompassing the observable universe then I'm sorry for ya. I don't have to know everything to know it all came from something else. Cause and effect dumb ass. And no, an initial cause doesn't have to have an initial effect. Name one thing that wasn't caused by something else. Any fucking child can resort to name calling and saying "did not". All it takes is lack of thought and selfish misplaced pride, so congratulations for having capacities similar to a toddler.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

Sure read more like "faith in ego." 

Nice rebuttal pops. You can't imagine something, so it's impossible. Reality doesn't work that way.

Care to address infinite regression without invoking special pleading?

(February 6, 2016 at 11:56 pm)Homeless Nutter Wrote:

(February 6, 2016 at 10:02 pm)popsthebuilder Wrote: No it isn't. Everything came from something.

Bullshit. Only a really stupid and ignorant person can make such uninformed statements. Have you seen "everything"? Do you know "everything"? No? Then how can you make judgements about "everything", you dumbass?

Also - if "everything came from something" - then where did your god come from, huh? You did say "everything", didn't you? So - by definition - that includes god, because "everything" includes everything. So tell me - who, or what shat your dumb god out? And shouldn't you be praying to THAT? Unless of course THAT also came from something, and that something - from yet something else, and so on, and so on - because "everything came from something".

Ugh, dumb people... SMH...

By the way; I just pray to GOD. I don't have to know where it came from to know that it is real. Being a sceptic from early childhood afforded me the position some of you seem to be in now. Thankfully, it was that position and self honesty that played a part in my coming to know of God. I could pray to hat ever I want as long as I understand that it is subsidiary to and formed by the One Creator GOD.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

(February 7, 2016 at 4:57 am)robvalue Wrote: Nice rebuttal pops. You can't imagine something, so it's impossible. Reality doesn't work that way.

Care to address infinite regression without invoking special pleading?

You must have meant that for homeless butter, the One claiming everything in the observable universe wasn't caused by something else because he wasn't there to watch it.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

No, it was meant for you.

You say everything needs a cause, so how does this chain ever end without arbitrarily violating your own rule?

(February 7, 2016 at 4:57 am)robvalue Wrote: Nice rebuttal pops. You can't imagine something, so it's impossible. Reality doesn't work that way.

Care to address infinite regression without invoking special pleading?

Infinite regression wouldn't really apply to anything outside or prior to the observable universe now would it?

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

Why not? Does "everything need a cause" or not? What has being observable got to do with it?

(February 7, 2016 at 4:50 am)popsthebuilder Wrote:

(February 7, 2016 at 2:33 am)ApeNotKillApe Wrote: They fail (or refuse) to understand that something HAS TO come from nothing, it doesn't make sense otherwise.

No, only nothing can come from nothing. The contrary is faulty logic. Nothing can never be or cause anything, because it's nothing...

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

So, have you investigated this "nothing" you're deriding. Perhaps you can pass along a sample. The same one you've been testing would be fine. Please include a detailed description of all the tests you've run so we can attempt to duplicate your results to either refute or confirm your conclusions.

Oh, what's that? You don't have any? You haven't run any tests? You have no fucking idea what you're really talking about?

Color me unsurprised.