(February 7, 2016 at 1:28 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Lot's of straws here, Brian, and you're bringing up a ton of stuff that has nothing to do with anything I said.

Ok, so it was just our imagination that your attitude is "What's wrong with him being a gay Catholic if it makes him happy"? Feel free to correct me if that is not your position.

(February 4, 2016 at 9:27 am)Irrational Wrote: Joe Prever wants other people to suffer just like him?

Oh yeah, groups like them love the self hating gays. The Ionanists had one for their anti-gay marriage campaign before and during our recent referendum (not that you'd know they were anti-gay marriage from the shit they're spouting now).

(February 4, 2016 at 9:38 am)Cato Wrote: Ah yes, ye olde hate the sin not the sinner routine. It's hard to take seriously someone who simultaneously refers to John Lennon as a kind of idiot, yet wants us to accept his assertion that homosexuality is somehow as harmful as eating sand.

He's calling Lennon lazy, yet the idiot is too fucking lazy to find out what Lennon wanted, calling it a religion instead. Fucking self-hating idiot.

Yes, that is my position. But for one, I never said anything about getting homophobia accusations.

(February 7, 2016 at 1:37 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Yes, that is my position. But for one, I never said anything about getting homophobia accusations.

WE agree that you claim YOU,  not me, but we agree your position is "There is nothing wrong with him being a gay Catholic".

IN WHAT CONTEXT?

Legally or logically?

Legally if one wants to wear a burka in the west, sure it is legal, but the sexism behind it's history based on religion, my question to a woman would be "if that makes you happy, are you doing it because you really want to, or because someone convinced you".

NOW again, you have a hard time, like most believers separating legal rights and how good logic works.

That is why you cannot understand why your position matters in this thread. You are far too wrapped up in feeling good about yourself you cant see that your good intent isn't reality.

I am sure he wants to believe he is happy, and I am also sure those in the church think he is welcome. But again, that has nothing to do that both he and the church that welcome him are BOTH BASING their positions on an old book, that still has nothing to do with our modern understanding of primate behavior.

He is not happy for the right reasons, he is simply happy because he wants to fit in. It is a false comfort. 

NOW again, please don't follow up with crap about rights, this is bout logic and reason.

Ok. In that case we'll just have to agree to disagree on whether his "reasons" for being celibate are good.

(February 7, 2016 at 1:49 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Ok. In that case we'll just have to agree to disagree on whether his "reasons" for being celibate are good.

No you made the claim, now it is time for you to prove, that your Catholic view of the bible is credible, and you need to do so with scientific evidence. If you cannot do that, then do the right thing, and admit the bible is not the correct way to view human behaviors.

I am quite sure you already accept that the Quran contains no scientific evidence that defends the need for a woman to wear a burka.

Don't hit and run. Prove that Catholic interpretation of gays is scientifically sound.

CL, if I was a Muslim, and male and said to you "You have to cover your face for me, trust me, it will make me happy, and you too".

Would you simply go "Ok, sure"?

Many humans HAVE and do join clubs just to fit in, and yes, it can create a "happiness", but when they do that most of the time it is just to fit in, it isn't based on any real sense of self. The type of "happiness" his well intended church goers and he falls for, is about placating the church, not basing it on any pragmatic understanding of human behavior.

(February 7, 2016 at 1:53 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(February 7, 2016 at 1:49 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Ok. In that case we'll just have to agree to disagree on whether his "reasons" for being celibate are good.

No you made the claim, now it is time for you to prove, that your Catholic view of the bible is credible, and you need to do so with scientific evidence. If you cannot do that, then do the right thing, and admit the bible is not the correct way to view human behaviors.

I am quite sure you already accept that the Quran contains no scientific evidence that defends the need for a woman to wear a burka.

Don't hit and run. Prove that Catholic interpretation of gays is scientifically sound.

I can't prove that, and never claimed I could. However, I have had a personal experience that has been proof to me of God's existence, and of Catholicism specifically. Can I use this as proof for anyone else? No. Not unless they took my word for what I would say happened. I just know in my heart that it is true, and I'm ok with others not agreeing. I have 0 interest in trying to convert anyone here. Looks like you're looking for a fight, but you'll just have to go look somewhere else.

(February 7, 2016 at 2:03 pm)Brian37 Wrote: CL, if I was a Muslim, and male and said to you "You have to cover your face for me, trust me, it will make me happy, and you too".

Would you simply go "Ok, sure"?

Many humans HAVE and do join clubs just to fit in, and yes, it can create a "happiness", but when they do that most of the time it is just to fit in, it isn't based on any real sense of self. The type of "happiness" his well intended church goers and he falls for, is about placating the church, not basing it on any pragmatic understanding of human behavior.

No.

And you're assuming that all us Catholics who choose to live by Church teaching do so only because we were told and that we're just blindly following. Perhaps that is true for some people, and I can't speak for everyone. But it certainly isn't true for me, and I certainly wouldn't assume that people are just "blindly following" every time they disagree with me on something.

(February 7, 2016 at 2:22 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(February 7, 2016 at 1:53 pm)Brian37 Wrote: No you made the claim, now it is time for you to prove, that your Catholic view of the bible is credible, and you need to do so with scientific evidence. If you cannot do that, then do the right thing, and admit the bible is not the correct way to view human behaviors.

I am quite sure you already accept that the Quran contains no scientific evidence that defends the need for a woman to wear a burka.

Don't hit and run. Prove that Catholic interpretation of gays is scientifically sound.

I can't prove that, and never claimed I could. However, I have had a personal experience that has been proof to me of God's existence, and of Catholicism specifically. Can I use this as proof for anyone else? No. Not unless they took my word for what I would say happened. I just know in my heart that it is true, and I'm ok with others not agreeing. I have 0 interest in trying to convert anyone here. Looks like you're looking for a fight, but you'll just have to go look somewhere else.

Right you cant prove it, and that should tell you something right there.

"Personal experience", yep heard that one too, not just from Catholics, but Baptists and Mormons and Jews and Hindus and Buddhists. Yes you can cling to something based on that. Now the issue on all topics, not just the topic of this thread is "so what". 

And like most humans, you have no idea what selection bias and sample rate error are. And you don't understand that science does explain even to a neurological degree, that our species perceptions of reality are notoriously flawed.