(February 25, 2011 at 10:09 am)leo-rcc Wrote: That is utter bullshit, there are many religions other than Christianity that have the same message, some far older than that. And where did you ever get the idea from that Christianity brings us notions of equality?

To put it simply, in Christianity no one is above the "Law" of God. You can be the richest, most powerful man in the world, you can still go to Hell if you do wrong. While systems from the Vikings to the Egyptians to the Romans have specifications about some people not having a chance whatsoever for their respective "heavens".

If you actually look at the message of Christianity, there are a couple lines about homosexuality, and thousands about helping the poor. A great number of charities and shelters are Christian. Again, nothing is all black or all white and it is pretty tiring to see both sides demonizing the other at every turn.

If you look at the message of Christianity, you will find racism even from the Christ figure himself. There is no notion of equality in Christianity, there never has been.

(February 25, 2011 at 10:03 am)Jaysyn Wrote: Maybe not, but they still support the system.

I answered that earlier: any position on any issue can be seen as supporting the extremes, and many many theists vehemently condemn extremist behavior.

Quote:That are summarily ignored by most of it's adherents that I interact with. Christians love the death penalty. Most Christians have no tolerance for homosexuals. Many, many, many Christians, on both sides of the skin color spectrum, are extremely racist to this day. Also, the philosophy of Buddhism had all of those tennants covered 4 centuries before Christ ever came on the scene.

That is a BIG generalization right there i am afraid. And it is just simply false. "Christians" do not have no tolerance for homosexuals. "Christians" do not love the death penalty. Maybe in your area, but it is still only anecdotal evidence.

Buddhism does share some similarities, but you'll notice that in Tibet before it was overrun by China, there was one of the strictest theocracies the region had ever seen.

Quote:And nowhere did I make either one of those, everything I claimed above has been measured & debated for decades before I was even born.

Well you just did up there :/

Quote:Irrational dialog is useless. If they were rational to start with, they wouldn't be religious, now would they?

Most theists are very rational. They do make an exception for God, but for everything else in their lives they are absolutely no different than you or me.

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(February 25, 2011 at 10:21 am)leo-rcc Wrote: If you look at the message of Christianity, you will find racism even from the Christ figure himself. There is no notion of equality in Christianity, there never has been.

I...just explained it

The Catechism of the Catholic Church is "inspired by the Holy Spirit" and is supposed to be the text at the basis of that religion. I encourage you to read a little of it and you'll see that is really is not that bad.

It is pretty much reverse cherry-picking: you only take the bad parts and disregard the rest.

(February 25, 2011 at 9:26 am)Rwandrall Wrote: And Christianity did bring us notions like the sanctity of life, equality, and compassion that did not exist beforehand.

You mean after they were done with the Crusades, the slave trade and the Salem Witch Trials?

Just because some do horrible things in the name of an ideology, does not necessarily mean that the ideology is entirely flawed and evil.

(February 25, 2011 at 11:22 am)Rwandrall Wrote: Just because some do horrible things in the name of an ideology, does not necessarily mean that the ideology is entirely flawed and evil.

Whatever, it's obvious that you live in a completely different world than I do & I tire of your apologetics.

I completely agree that you seem to live in a completely different world than i do

American mid-westeners are the biggest religious nuts in the northern hemisphere. Judging all theists by this standard is unfair.

(February 25, 2011 at 10:09 am)leo-rcc Wrote:

(February 25, 2011 at 9:26 am)Rwandrall Wrote: And Christianity did bring us notions like the sanctity of life, equality, and compassion that did not exist beforehand.

That is utter bullshit, there are many religions other than Christianity that have the same message, some far older than that. And where did you ever get the idea from that Christianity brings us notions of equality?

I wish I could give you one hundred kudos for that. I'll further your response and say that religion itself is probably not responsible for respect for life, equality and compassion. All of these things go back as far in human history as we've been able to delve.

(February 25, 2011 at 12:57 pm)Shell B Wrote: I wish I could give you one hundred kudos for that. I'll further your response and say that religion itself is probably not responsible for respect for life, equality and compassion. All of these things go back as far in human history as we've been able to delve.

Christianity also went against human and animal sacrifices for example. Again, nothing is all black or all white.

About the moral concepts, Aristotle, who is pretty much a big deal in te world of philosophy, thought that the poor and the downtrodden deserved sympathy and pity. A big idea for his time, but nowhere as far as what christianity brought.
If you take China or its neighboring countries, you'll see that human life simply does not possess the same value. In the groups advocating for the suppression of the death penalty, and humn rights as a whole, many of them were religious. Yes, many amongst the religious are bigots and full of hatred. Many are not.

(February 25, 2011 at 1:06 pm)Rwandrall Wrote:

(February 25, 2011 at 12:57 pm)Shell B Wrote: I wish I could give you one hundred kudos for that. I'll further your response and say that religion itself is probably not responsible for respect for life, equality and compassion. All of these things go back as far in human history as we've been able to delve.

Christianity also went against human and animal sacrifices for example. Again, nothing is all black or all white.

About the moral concepts, Aristotle, who is pretty much a big deal in te world of philosophy, thought that the poor and the downtrodden deserved sympathy and pity. A big idea for his time, but nowhere as far as what christianity brought.
If you take China or its neighboring countries, you'll see that human life simply does not possess the same value. In the groups advocating for the suppression of the death penalty, and humn rights as a whole, many of them were religious. Yes, many amongst the religious are bigots and full of hatred. Many are not.

Even if what you say above is true, which I will argue in a moment, that doesn't mean that Christianity introduced equality, compassion and sanctity of life, or even that it represents it.

Do you think Aristotle was the first person to feel sympathy for the poor and express it? Have you not considered the civilizations that came before Ancient Greece? Furthermore, you have wandered off your original argument that compassion, equality and sanctity of life were introduced by Christians. You've now shown that compassion was introduced long before Christianity.

Compassion is not a concept that only describes feeling sorry for the poor. I am sure that compassion has existed as long as the concept of family or motherhood has existed. In other words, animals had it before we did. As for equality, check out Sumerian law. Women and men were equal, a concept Christians fought for a very long time. Sanctity of life? What is sanctity of life to old school Christians? Kill them if they piss you off? Pretend he's a witch and then you won't have to pay your debt because we'll burn the motherfucker?