What? I still don't see where it says Catholics are required to believe in the OT stories literally, which is what I thought you were saying. The very first quote you posted, actually, specifically says genesis "uses figurative language."

Yes, we believe God is the ultimate creator (even with evolution). Yes, we believe in original sin having been passed down by our first parents. I had already said this.

You don't see it because you don't want to, and I'm -certain- that you were taught this but chose not to listen, carte blanche catholicism.  It's right there in the black and white.  Those stories..which are from the OT, have to be accepted literally.  Contradictory claims, such as polygenism, are to be renounced by all catholics. They are fundamental to the christ narrative,which the church has draped itself with. You do not have the choice that you think you do, in the context of being faithfully catholic.

You're trying to weasel your way out of church doctrine because it's made a fool of you, and you don't really believe it anyway. That's the obvious takeaway from any nonsense about taking the stories figuratively rather than literally, as decreed.

"Uses figurative language"- to affirm a true event.......don't just stop reading when it suits you, that's how you got yourself into this in the first place........

(February 28, 2016 at 12:42 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: What? I still don't see where it says Catholics are required to believe in the OT stories literally, which is what I thought you were saying. The very first quote you posted, actually, specifically says genesis "uses figurative language."

So, let's formulate the question differently: I'm not asking for dogma but for your personal opinion. What do you think, the OT represents? Not it's particular stories, but as a whole body of stories.

(February 28, 2016 at 12:57 pm)abaris Wrote:

(February 28, 2016 at 12:42 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: What? I still don't see where it says Catholics are required to believe in the OT stories literally, which is what I thought you were saying. The very first quote you posted, actually, specifically says genesis "uses figurative language."

So, let's formulate the question differently: I'm not asking for dogma but for your personal opinion. What do you think, the OT represents? Not it's particular stories, but as a whole body of stories.

As a whole? The existence of God, the fallen nature of humans, our calling to try to become better people, the prediction of Jesus.... I'm sure there's more.

Quote:I believe the Church's teachings on faith and morals come from God, and those are the things we have a firm belief in.

Okay - so you believe what you want to believe.

Caesar had you nailed.

"Men willingly believe what they wish to be true."

(February 28, 2016 at 1:11 pm)Minimalist Wrote:

Quote:I believe the Church's teachings on faith and morals come from God, and those are the things we have a firm belief in.

Okay - so you believe what you want to believe.

Caesar had you nailed.

"Men willingly believe what they wish to be true."

Why do you think I want to believe it though? How do you figure I don't have legitimate reasons for believing what I do, and that they don't involve me just believing it because I "want to?"

(February 28, 2016 at 1:04 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: As a whole? The existence of God, the fallen nature of humans, our calling to try to become better people, the prediction of Jesus.... I'm sure there's more.

No, that's not what I meant. Even if you take all the stories to be allegorical, what's your take on the nature of the stories? Why are they told the way they are? More importantly, what's your take on god's appearances and interventions in these stories? What does that tell you?

If you believe but don't want to, you probably need to talk to somebody about that, and if you have "legitimate reasons" for believing that the catholic churches teachings on faith and morality come from god you're probably using the phrase very loosely.  

The churches teachings come from the church. You know this, this is your defence against all the other christians who think you're a pagan backslider.........when they ask you "where does that come from, that's not in the bible, god never said that".

(February 28, 2016 at 1:39 pm)abaris Wrote:

(February 28, 2016 at 1:04 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: As a whole? The existence of God, the fallen nature of humans, our calling to try to become better people, the prediction of Jesus.... I'm sure there's more.

No, that's not what I meant. Even if you take all the stories to be allegorical, what's your take on the nature of the stories? Why are they told the way they are? More importantly, what's your take on god's appearances and interventions in these stories? What does that tell you?

I don't have an answer to these. Other than what I said in my first response to you, I don't think much about OT stories. I try to follow the examples of Jesus and the teachings of the Church.

(February 28, 2016 at 1:45 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I don't have an answer to these. Other than what I said in my first response to you, I don't think much about OT stories. I try to follow the examples of Jesus and the teachings of the Church.

From where I'm standing, you should, since it negates the premise of your whole thread. The OT is in no way an original book. It just happens to be taken seriously by a lot of people. It's kind of a sole survivor.

Gods made appearances and interacted with people in virtual all cultures. And people wrote about it or talked about the tales at the campfires. The OT is a set of laws and a behavioral code for a particular society at a particular time. For us, these codes seem abhorrent. But for these people, they were perfectly normal and moral.