(March 9, 2016 at 8:47 am)Jörmungandr Wrote:

(March 9, 2016 at 5:14 am)Little Rik Wrote: So you know for sure that something does not exist just by doing nothing and experiencing nothing
in that sense.
Whoooooo that is clever yog.
How did you become so smart?
Eating a lot of spinach?  

Your claim that I have done nothing to arrive at this conclusion is as unsupported as the rest of your twaddle.  I have arrived at this conclusion as a result of much studying and thinking.  But you're oblivious to all that, as your preferred route to knowledge consists of sitting on your ass.  And your response to me here is just a pretext for you puffing your usual wares about how you must expend effort in intuitional science to know anything about it, such as whether or not it is even compatible with reality.  To which I say, "hogwash," there are multiple ways to study life and I have engaged in most of them.  If, as you say, merely by engaging in a practice you can know the summit of such practice, then I do.   Either your claim ends up being false by way of my thinking on the subject, or by your claim that by practice one can know the summit.   The summit, whatever it is, cannot be known by your experience of the side of the mountain.  The side of the mountain tells you that your path is ever upward, that no matter how far you climb, the path always goes higher.  This does not in any way tell you that the summit is of infinite height, or that it will go upward forever.  You will reach a point at which the climb peters out, and there you are at the summit, not some never never land where the climb goes on forever.  The climb does not accurately describe the summit.

(March 9, 2016 at 5:14 am)Little Rik Wrote: How would you know that by studying or performing in any sport or activity you will get at the
top of that activity?
Gee, that is a real difficult question to ask.  
I never thought about it yog.  
Have a lovely day yog.    

What is at question is not whether by performance one will get to the top of that activity -- whatever the top of that activity is -- but rather will any amount of practice allow you to leap tall buildings in a single bound.  You can reach the top, but the top isn't total peace of mind, and nothing in your experience, no matter how much practice you've done, demonstrates that it is.  You may have experienced peace of mind, perhaps even greater peace of mind as a result of yoga, that doesn't mean that you ever can experience total peace of mind.

(March 9, 2016 at 5:14 am)Little Rik Wrote: Oh, by the way yog, do you know anyone who can help me with this question........what is the
relationship between energy and consciousness?  

I could help you with the question, but since you are attached to a dogmatic response to the question, my doing so would be pointless.  Regardless of what I say, you'll just use it as an excuse to ramble on advertising this or that unrelated belief of yours.  So I could answer your question, but I do not do so because you have demonstrated time and time again that you are not interested in honestly exploring opinions on the matter but rather use every such occasion to prattle on about your dogmatic beliefs.

Unfortunately atheists many dogmas prevent the person to examine how the whole system works.
When atheists think that there is only one life you already screw yourself in the head.
When atheists haven't got a clue about the differences among brain, mind and consciousness and when
they don't know why evolution start where is leading to and the relationship between energy and consciousness then it is impossible to understand whether a cosmic mind exist or not.
Your many studies obviously relate to a little bit of physical understanding of how the PHYSICAL system works.
You just cannot go over the border where a non physical reality exist.
You can study as much as you like.
It will not make any difference.  
Everything is on the move in this physical universe for the simple reason that all form of consciousness
wish to get out the physical cage.
Happy people have no desire to make changes but everybody does and they struggle to get at the top of human emancipation.
So it is obvious that nobody is real happy.
If they say so they lie.  
Most people can not see the top but their consciousness tell them that by climbing higher and higher
the life get better and better.
It is only when a teacher appear in their lives that they understand that total peace of mind is possible.
The teacher is 24/7 waiting for us to show how total peace of mind is possible but of course if you never
wish to see the real teacher you will never know whether total peace of mind is possible or not.  

(March 10, 2016 at 6:15 am)Little Rik Wrote: It is only when a teacher appear in their lives that they understand that total peace of mind is possible.
The teacher is 24/7 waiting for us to show how total peace of mind is possible but of course if you never
wish to see the real teacher you will never know whether total peace of mind is possible or not.  

Like I said, the only reason you believe in total peace of mind is the word of a fool.

And who is the more foolish - the fool, or the fool who follows it?

And that concludes the beta test of my "Infinite number of monkeys" software.

The test has been partially successful. Although no Shakespeare was produced, the algorithms did indeed succeed in generating large portions of religious text.

Thank you for reading the output. Have a nice day.

(March 10, 2016 at 7:43 am)Jörmungandr Wrote:

(March 10, 2016 at 6:15 am)Little Rik Wrote: It is only when a teacher appear in their lives that they understand that total peace of mind is possible.
The teacher is 24/7 waiting for us to show how total peace of mind is possible but of course if you never
wish to see the real teacher you will never know whether total peace of mind is possible or not.  

Like I said, the only reason you believe in total peace of mind is the word of a fool.

If the teaching lead nowhere of course the teacher is a fool and you are even more fool if you continue to believe a fool.  
Obvious yog.
But what if you try to sort out the problem by yourself?
Maybe it is possible but it is very much unlikely.
To cross the ocean you need a big boat.
You could swim but that is next to impossible that is why people need help.
You may well find the wrong teacher but there are no alternatives.
You got to try until you find the right teacher.
If you study as you said you should know that you need a teacher.
Books are also written by teachers and by people who have been there before so the question to
get or not to get a teacher is out of the question.
We all need a teacher to show us the way.
At the end unless you are an idiot you will know whether the teacher is good or bad.
Now you made a claim.
You claim that my teacher is a fool.
What about if i tell you that your teacher is a fool?
Do i know your teacher?
Do i know whether his teaching lead somewhere or nowhere?
How can i judge without knowing your teacher and what you get or don't get by following your teacher?
Don't you think is very rude to judge without knowing anything?
You think you are smart yog but the evidence tell me that you are just a fool that pretend to know
what you don't know.  
You know absolutely nothing about philosophy about the difference between brain, mind and consciousness, next to zero about evolution and zero about the relationship between energy and consciousness and yet you deliver judgments based on guessing.
Don't you think is about time to look in the mirror and realize how weak you are?  

Wow this thread is still going! Can you give me an update what I missed since page 100 or so?

Basically a lot of this



Lots of noise and no music, essentially.

(March 11, 2016 at 9:47 am)Alex K Wrote: Wow this thread is still going! Can you give me an update what I missed since page 100 or so?

I can only vouch for myself. In this post, page 282, ( see: http://atheistforums.org/thread-34809-po...pid1219006), I called him out, but to no avail. The guy who claims to have morals has none. What a surprise...

(March 11, 2016 at 9:37 am)Little Rik Wrote:

(March 10, 2016 at 7:43 am)Jörmungandr Wrote: Like I said, the only reason you believe in total peace of mind is the word of a fool.

If the teaching lead nowhere of course the teacher is a fool and you are even more fool if you continue to believe a fool.  
Obvious yog.
But what if you try to sort out the problem by yourself?
Maybe it is possible but it is very much unlikely.
To cross the ocean you need a big boat.
You could swim but that is next to impossible that is why people need help.
You may well find the wrong teacher but there are no alternatives.
You got to try until you find the right teacher.
If you study as you said you should know that you need a teacher.
Books are also written by teachers and by people who have been there before so the question to
get or not to get a teacher is out of the question.
We all need a teacher to show us the way.
At the end unless you are an idiot you will know whether the teacher is good or bad.
Now you made a claim.
You claim that my teacher is a fool.
What about if i tell you that your teacher is a fool?
Do i know your teacher?
Do i know whether his teaching lead somewhere or nowhere?
How can i judge without knowing your teacher and what you get or don't get by following your teacher?
Don't you think is very rude to judge without knowing anything?
You think you are smart yog but the evidence tell me that you are just a fool that pretend to know
what you don't know.  
You know absolutely nothing about philosophy about the difference between brain, mind and consciousness, next to zero about evolution and zero about the relationship between energy and consciousness and yet you deliver judgments based on guessing.
Don't you think is about time to look in the mirror and realize how weak you are?  

Hoo boy! Look at all that sauce!

We were talking about whether you can know if total peace of mind is possible because your teacher says so. No, you cannot. Teachers can be wrong, or they can be outright liars. That you trust Sarkar is no evidence that his statement is true. Your trust means nothing. The only way you know is by experiencing it yourself, or logical argument. You haven't experienced it yourself, and your arguments were insufficient to the task. Just because you failed doesn't give you an excuse to go around being rude to me, dicksmoke.

(March 11, 2016 at 9:37 am)Little Rik Wrote: You know absolutely nothing about philosophy about the difference between brain, mind and consciousness,

Science has lots of answers and more information is coming all the time.  The only issue that science has not yet been able to address is the 'qualia' of existence, of which you cannot know anything anymore than anyone else.  All living things are aware.  This is simply a function of life that is necessary for continuance.  A virus needs to be aware of the DNA factory of a cell to reproduce and that awareness is nothing more than chemical reactions.  There is no reason to believe that we are any different.  Qualia on the other hand, is an awareness of our awareness.  A virus, however, has no brain, ergo it has no qualia.

The problem with qualia is that we cannot study it within the 'system' and we are unable to step out of the system.  It is impossible to completely know any system from within the system.  Qualia puts us in a position that leads us to believe that we are aware of reality when in fact, we are nothing more than 'brains-in-a-vat' and cannot know for sure that anything we perceive is as we perceive it.

What qualia is, how the brain generates qualia, why the brain does so, if the brain does so are all good questions for which we have no answer at this time.  Whether or not we can ever know is an even bigger question.

So, unless you can source some information that no one else in the world has, how can you even begin to suggest that you know anything of this system?  Anecdotes and 'scripture thumping' are not proof, evidence or even 'keyholes' to reality and the nature of qualia.

So bring it on.