..and I can provided proof that their are about 33K different versions of recognized Christianity. Which again is not 40K different religions.

(March 11, 2016 at 9:52 am)Mancunian Wrote:

(March 10, 2016 at 12:26 pm)Drich Wrote:

Natural?!?!? Is that truly your guiding measure??? Think carfully, because Stealing is Natural, so is Rape and Murder! In your 'naturalistic society' is that some we all have to 'get use to?' Or are we expected to curb some of our 'natural' tendencies?

If you think to rape and murder is natural you are even more sick than I thought. And ring fencing homosexual people with rapists and murderers is offensive you fucking pinhead.

Seriously? are you stupid? Or do you not know animals Rape and Kill one another? Maybe you should spend sometime  doing something other than getting high. Did you know when a male lion takes over a 'pride' he MURDERS All the cubs of the previous Male? The same behaivor can be witnessed in primates. Speaking of Primates aggressive males can and will rape other unwilling males and females alike.

http://www.livescience.com/48743-aggress...-more.html

(March 11, 2016 at 3:23 pm)Drich Wrote:

(March 11, 2016 at 9:52 am)Mancunian Wrote: If you think to rape and murder is natural you are even more sick than I thought. And ring fencing homosexual people with rapists and murderers is offensive you fucking pinhead.

Seriously? are you stupid? Or do you not know animals Rape and Kill one another? Maybe you should spend sometime  doing something other than getting high. Did you know when a male lion takes over a 'pride' he MURDERS All the cubs of the previous Male? The same behaivor can be witnessed in primates. Speaking of Primates aggressive males can and will rape other unwilling males and females alike.

http://www.livescience.com/48743-aggress...-more.html

Maybe you missed the word PEOPLE in my reply fucktard..

(March 11, 2016 at 5:04 pm)Mancunian Wrote:

(March 11, 2016 at 3:23 pm)Drich Wrote: Seriously? are you stupid? Or do you not know animals Rape and Kill one another? Maybe you should spend sometime  doing something other than getting high. Did you know when a male lion takes over a 'pride' he MURDERS All the cubs of the previous Male? The same behaivor can be witnessed in primates. Speaking of Primates aggressive males can and will rape other unwilling males and females alike.

http://www.livescience.com/48743-aggress...-more.html

Maybe you missed the word PEOPLE in my reply fucktard..

And fuck it, I'm pissed now so here goes, my brother is dead, I hold you, people like you, and your stupid fucking religion responsible. I lie awake at night wondering if he repented on the railway line. roll on the fucking floor laughing at that you fucking twat.

How about that !


There aren't 40,000 christian denominations!



















There are 78,000.

(March 7, 2016 at 8:56 pm)1994Californication Wrote: Given that same sex relationships were for the most part uncontroversial in pre christian ancient societies,and didn't really become taboo until the Christianization of Rome and Christian European imperialism.One has to ask did gay peoples troubles begin with the rise of Christianity?

Well, I don't apply the term "gay" to ancient persons (I see that as anachronistic) but that's not to dispute there were definitely people that would fit into that description from ancient times at least if we are going to apply our modern notions to their behavior.  (Persons attracted to the same sex in romantic and erotic ways might fit even today into various identities and/or descriptions depending on preference, subculture, their broader culture, etc.)

That side issue aside though I don't know that I'd pin all of our troubles on the rise of Christianity.  A particular form of man on man sex I know was a big no-no at least for Jewish people and the prohibition was expanded to include female-female interactions I believe in the Talmud.  And there were a lot of associations and social meanings some ancient cultures had with male-on-male action that we don't necessarily have in some of our modern cultures.

In early Christianity sex was simply frowned on in general.  In fact, many early church fathers thought the only justification for it was the explicit intention during each given act to produce a child and it was thought that in marriage it was ideal to cease sexual relations ASAP.  Even the status of marriage was up for debate for a while -- the modern "traditional" positions that are very pro-marriage and pro-(hetero)sex are only traditional by today's standards.  Some early Christian thinkers thought that all sex included at least venial (minor) sin.

In his Christianity, Social Tolerance, and Homosexuality John Boswell argues that the more extreme forms of hatred against those engaging in same-sex relations did not begin until several centuries after the rise of Christianity.  He's not saying the early church fathers were approving of course -- some of them viewed all sex whatsoever as a result of the Fall -- but that there were long periods of a fair amount of tolerance in Europe for it even among clergy and sometimes bishops and popes and that there was at one point a thriving subculture of persons engaging in homosexual activity that produced poetry and so forth and often called themselves Ganymedes (from the Greek myth.)  At some point that subculture was suppressed.

If what he argues is correct then Christianity as a socio-political force is largely responsible for the persecution of gay (or whatever identity one prefers) persons but the more widespread and severe oppression began much later than the origins of the religious movement itself.

As to some other religions mentioned in this thread such as Buddhism it depends on the culture and time period one is examining.  Buddhist forms of religion have varied in their responses across time and culture, sometimes less tolerant sometimes more so, although even in their less affirming manifestations I don't think they had the same degree of vehemence one might sometimes find in Christianity or Islam.  They might see it more in terms of a person of one sex reincarnating as the opposite sex or some sort of esoteric energetic imbalance, a handicap, something to be pitied rather than a sin or someone who needs to be exterminated, at least in some of the articles I've read.  (I'm welcome to any corrections as I'm not an expert on Buddhism.)  I believe reactions vary in Hinduism as well, though they too have homophobia in some manifestations of that particular constellation of religions and cultures.  The interesting thing about Hinduism though is that oppressed subcultures will often turn to gods embodying their special interests or characteristics and thus there are homoerotic and gender-variant deities that represent a social, political, and ideological resistance to given prevailing norms in some societies.  This is true of some Bodhisattvas and Christian folk saints (and folk interpretations of traditional saints) as well.