I'd like to see a Christian lay out all the holy books from all the religions in front of their kid, and then let them have a look through.

Then they say, "This one is true, all the rest are not." The look on the kid's face would be priceless, I'll bet.

Teaching kids the difference between reality and fantasy is important. Assuming you do this at all, it would always have to be after you've finished indoctrination your child. Because otherwise you'd be breaking all your own rules to suddenly claim one magic story book just happens to be true.

(March 12, 2016 at 6:10 pm)Huggy74 Wrote:

(March 12, 2016 at 5:24 pm)drfuzzy Wrote:

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And as people have said thousands of times in this forum, if there was PROOF of god, I would readily accept the existence of god.  If god actually was worthy of worship (unlike the asshole described in your wholly babble), I might even end up worshipping.  But a LOT of proof would have to be given first.  Scientific, measurable proof.  

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So what you're saying is that you appeal to your god science, to guide how you think and are unable to form your own opinion based upon your own observations?

I have no god.  I rely on verifiable facts.  Using data and observation, I form my own opinions.  I do not need an imaginary friend to help me think.

(March 13, 2016 at 5:26 am)Huggy74 Wrote:

(March 13, 2016 at 5:01 am)robvalue Wrote: You can teach people about the fictional character Jesus portrayed in the bible, that is perfectly valid. It's telling your child that this is an accurate account of real events, which has some relevancy to real life (beyond perhaps some useful messages), which is indoctrination.

Telling your child that many historians believe there was a historical figure around that time at which the stories were based on, is also accurate, and that would be teaching. Telling them Jesus was real beyond doubt, and still is real, is indoctrination.

If you want to believe the way Jesus was portrayed was fictional, fine; the funny thing is you all ask for proof, and what's more proof than God himself condescending himself down to being a human? Stop being so full of yourselves, People didn't Just start being skeptics in the 20-21 centuries, they have ALWAYS been skeptical, Which is why Jesus had to start almost every sentence with "truly, truly I say to you".

"If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me; but if I do, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, that you may know and believe that the Father is in Me, and I in Him.” - John 10:37-38

In My Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. - John 14:2
*emphasis mine*

As far as historical figures go, there are plenty that aren't portrayed accurately in the history texts, do you consider that indoctrination? Where are you going to draw the line?

It's very, very possible that the entire character of Jesus was fictional.  Oh yeah, there was probably a Jewish street-preacher they built the (very old) mythology on -- 

God condescending himself down to being a human?  Now that's funny - since humans created god.  Disagree?  Fine.  Have god show up and prove me wrong.  He's god, he doesn't need your help.

(March 13, 2016 at 2:35 pm)drfuzzy Wrote: I have no god.  I rely on verifiable facts.  Using data and observation, I form my own opinions.

No you don't you rely on and trust what other people tell you simply because they are called scientists, tell me what personal observations you've made?

I suppose you are of the mind that we evolved from apes? Then why are humans the only creatures with the ability to reason? The only creatures with a moral compass? the only creature that will deliberately sacrifice itself out of love for another? The only creature that can appreciate aesthetics? Point me to the "observation" or "data" that proves humans evolved from apes.

If evolution occurs by small changes over time, as long humans have been around, shouldn't there be an even more evolved form of human?

We are apes; for the same reason ducks are birds.

(March 13, 2016 at 4:42 pm)Stimbo Wrote: We are apes; for the same reason ducks are birds.

Speak for yourself..

Actually you may be right, have you ever seen a shaved chimp?

Quote:and what's more proof than God himself condescending himself down to being a human?

That's not "proof" you dumb fuck. That's an idiotic assertion.

We're still apes. By definition and classification.

(March 13, 2016 at 4:53 pm)Minimalist Wrote:

Quote:and what's more proof than God himself condescending himself down to being a human?

That's not "proof" you dumb fuck. That's an idiotic assertion.

Wait wait wait... he said that? He seriously used the word "condescending" in the context of "God" coming down to Earth?

That's why I quoted him.