(March 14, 2016 at 10:10 am)Drich Wrote:

(March 13, 2016 at 11:57 am)dyresand Wrote: Once again if you want to add your own foot notes or even information go ahead.

There was a old story of how the Jews were enslaved by the Egyptians and how moses lead his people to freedom. 
Let's get some things things clear. They were never in Egypt nor they were slaves in Egypt. And thus the story
is fiction. The stories themselves came about in the 8th and 5th centuries B.C.E respectively. It's mythical story
telling nothing more nothing less. 

That's  pretty much it for book 2 making that bible smaller one book at a time.

The Jew while in egypt were not known as Jews. Why? Because they were known as egyptians. when Joseph's family was welcomed into egypt they were not a nation of people. they were one large family that was allowed to settled in the 'goshen' region of egypt. In this region several cities and hundreds of smaller villages were found and some have been excavated. In the rubble of these cities and in the graves Semitic items and Semitic burials prove these cities were not typical egyptian. All of this attributed to the late and the end of the middle kingdom. Even Egyptian documentation does indeed proove or show is a list of named slaves with specifically jewish names.

Where you like it or not whether you wish to continue believing and spreading this particular lie or not, know in the back of your mind not only do the jews in the bible confirm an egyptian captivity but their is period correct confirmed Egyptian papyrus that also show Jewish slaves along with, archaeological evidence.

And better yet for you someone has compiled all of this information and a whole heck of alot more into your favorite format explaining all of this in a documentary form. taking you to the dig sites, showing you the actual papyrus, having museum curators tell you what is on said papyrus and various monuments.

That would be the Ipuwer Papyrus, it doesn't prove the Exodus myth. It has nothing to do with that myth.

(March 13, 2016 at 11:57 am)dyresand Wrote: There was a old story of how the Jews were enslaved by the Egyptians and how moses lead his people to freedom. 
Let's get some things things clear. They were never in Egypt nor they were slaves in Egypt. And thus the story
is fiction. The stories themselves came about in the 8th and 5th centuries B.C.E respectively. It's mythical story
telling nothing more nothing less.

I have a huge problem with your classification of "mythology" as "fiction". They do not mean the same thing, nor are the terms interchangeable.

The second thing we have no idea about is when the Exodus story was first told. Yes it was probably first written in Hebrew in the 8th-7th century BC, but that doesn't mean it wasn't written down in a prior Canaanite language first and then copied into Hebrew. And it could have been around for many centuries or even millennia before it was recorded.

A Myth has a metaphysical reality that fiction does not have. It is something that has been created by an entire group of people over time - a culture, or a tribe. It is created unconsciously, progressively, and reflects upon the beliefs and the world view of the culture from which it appears. It is definitely not fiction - fiction is a conscious creation of work, and fictional works do not even come close to being comparable with myths.

The fact that you misuse this word shows you have a very poor understanding of its meaning. Allow me to give you an example: I say to you that your consciousness does not exist. It has no physical reality, it's just a belief that you and the people you know have come to accept as true, and I say to you that it's fiction. This is why you can't confuse metaphysics with fiction. You didn't consciously invent your consciousness, and neither did anyone else, it's a metaphysical construct, but it's not fiction. Another metaphysical construct is ownership. It too has no physical reality; but it has meaning in our society. This computer is "my computer", that's how I perceive ownership, and most other people perceive physical property it in the same way: it's a shared perspective. But it only has meaning because of the beliefs by others in society that the construct exists and is valid. Would you call the concept of ownership a work of "fiction"?

All these constructs I've mentioned have different functions. For example, it is Myths themselves that provide for a religious experience, which in turn can enhance or alter a person's perceptions of self and self-worth. Fiction does not provide those functions. Myths facilitate the creation and persistence and even transformation of culture; thus largely accounting for the diversity in the world today. Fiction can not provide a comparable function to this.

(March 15, 2016 at 11:42 am)Aractus Wrote: All these constructs I've mentioned have different functions. For example, it is Myths themselves that provide for a religious experience, which in turn can enhance or alter a person's perceptions of self and self-worth. Fiction does not provide those functions. Myths facilitate the creation and persistence and even transformation of culture; thus largely accounting for the diversity in the world today. Fiction can not provide a comparable function to this.

I think that that's an awfully broad brush you just painted with that statement, I think the Lord of The Rings; for example, can fulfill all of the functions you associated with myth.

(March 14, 2016 at 10:10 am)Drich Wrote:

(March 13, 2016 at 11:57 am)dyresand Wrote: Once again if you want to add your own foot notes or even information go ahead.

There was a old story of how the Jews were enslaved by the Egyptians and how moses lead his people to freedom. 
Let's get some things things clear. They were never in Egypt nor they were slaves in Egypt. And thus the story
is fiction. The stories themselves came about in the 8th and 5th centuries B.C.E respectively. It's mythical story
telling nothing more nothing less. 

That's  pretty much it for book 2 making that bible smaller one book at a time.

The Jew while in egypt were not known as Jews. Why? Because they were known as Egyptians...

Nope. They were known as the "sons of Israel", the "Israelites" or the "people of Israel", a clear ethnic distinction from the Egyptians, which the Bible states both explicitly and implicitly. See Exodus 1.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se...ersion=NLT

Quote:Exodus 1
1. These are the names of the sons of Israel (that is, Jacob) who moved to Egypt with their father,
... blah ... blah...
7 But their descendants, the Israelites, had many children and grandchildren. In fact, they multiplied so greatly that they became extremely powerful and filled the land.
8 Eventually, a new king came to power in Egypt who knew nothing about Joseph or what he had done.
9 He said to his people, “Look, the people of Israel now outnumber us and are stronger than we are.
...
11. So the Egyptians made the Israelites their slaves.

The Bible states in black and white that the Jews were in Egypt. Oh sorry, I've got that wrong - the People of Israel, the Sons of Israel, the Israelites. That means Jews, and you know it does.

Are you going to try to pretend that the Bible doesn't actually say this?

Whatever.

It doesn't really matter how hard you shout that black is white - it isn't.

No fair using facts on a fucktard like Dripshit.

(March 15, 2016 at 2:28 pm)Minimalist Wrote: No fair using facts on a fucktard like Dripshit.

I'd just like to add a caveat.

I said it was in the Bible, but I emphatically did not mean to imply that it was therefore true!

It is a fact that it is in the Bible, certainly.

Which is what I thought your point was.

One thing about Drippy.  I don't think he has ever read that fucking bible of his.  If he has, he missed a lot.  Good job pointing out another of his little fuck-ups.

(March 15, 2016 at 11:42 am)Aractus Wrote: I have a huge problem with your classification of "mythology" as "fiction". They do not mean the same thing, nor are the terms interchangeable.

All mythology is fiction, not all fiction is mythology.  What's the problem?  

Quote:A Myth has a metaphysical reality that fiction does not have. It is something that has been created by an entire group of people over time - a culture, or a tribe. It is created unconsciously, progressively, and reflects upon the beliefs and the world view of the culture from which it appears. It is definitely not fiction - fiction is a conscious creation of work, and fictional works do not even come close to being comparable with myths.

You mean like multiple authors writing multiple fan fic star wars anthologies that each feels expresses or addresses some great "metaphysical reality" reflecting the beliefs and cultures from whence they appear?   You think that others have a misunderstanding, I think that you fail to properly appreciate fiction. You think that it can't provide what mythology, as a subset... provides (an absurd claim on it's face), my response is simply to say the names Suess, Tolkein, Dick, and Roddenberry.

It has nothing to do with multiple authors or single authors. It has to do with the fact that Myths are an unconscious creation, whereas Fiction is a conscious creation.

(March 15, 2016 at 2:11 pm)FebruaryOfReason Wrote:

(March 14, 2016 at 10:10 am)Drich Wrote: The Jew while in egypt were not known as Jews. Why? Because they were known as Egyptians...

Nope. They were known as the "sons of Israel", the "Israelites" or the "people of Israel", a clear ethnic distinction from the Egyptians, which the Bible states both explicitly and implicitly. See Exodus 1.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se...ersion=NLT

Quote:Exodus 1
1. These are the names of the sons of Israel (that is, Jacob) who moved to Egypt with their father,
... blah ... blah...
7 But their descendants, the Israelites, had many children and grandchildren. In fact, they multiplied so greatly that they became extremely powerful and filled the land.
8 Eventually, a new king came to power in Egypt who knew nothing about Joseph or what he had done.
9 He said to his people, “Look, the people of Israel now outnumber us and are stronger than we are.
...
11. So the Egyptians made the Israelites their slaves.

The Bible states in black and white that the Jews were in Egypt. Oh sorry, I've got that wrong - the People of Israel, the Sons of Israel, the Israelites. That means Jews, and you know it does.

Are you going to try to pretend that the Bible doesn't actually say this?

Whatever.

It doesn't really matter how hard you shout that black is white - it isn't.

The Israelites didn't become Jews until Moses gave them the law.  That's when they started the Jewish rituals.