-- Is the mind-boggling size of our known universe.  
I just saw a great video that demonstrates the actual distances within our own solar system in layperson's terms.  It's on Science.Mic if you're interested: 
Mark Rober - Size of the Solar System

In the video, Rober also briefly talks about the Hubble Deep Field images.  (Described by Bryan Braun as "The Most Important Image Ever Taken".) http://www.bryanbraun.com/2011/01/23/the...ever-taken "There are an estimated 10,000 galaxies shown in the image. Each galaxy contains millions of stars. All this was found in a dark spot in the sky behind the eye of a needle. That's equal to roughly one thirteen-millionth of the total area of the sky."

For me, just the distance between the Earth and Saturn is too far to imagine.  (746 million miles/1.2 billion kilometers at the closest point.  Earth: Circumference: 24,901 mi / Distance from Sun: 92.96 million miles)  From Saturn, the Earth is, as Carl Sagan put it, a "pale blue dot".  And yet, people are still killing each other over which middle eastern tribe, squatting on an 8000 square mile plot of arid land, has the right imaginary friend. 

Forget the concept of a being that created the universe, or even the solar system for a moment. Shrink the "god concept" down to a being capable of LOCATING this pale blue dot, and deciding to start or seed LIFE on it. This being would be so far beyond our comprehension - - an intelligence gap greater than human vs. a paramecium.  But most people's concept of god is of a sky-daddy who knows every thought, hears every prayer, and cares about every action. They also believe sky-daddy wants every human to believe (but can't convince 8 billion humans what they're supposed to call him) and will punish them for eternity if they choose the wrong name. 

The sizes and scope of the universe is fatal to the logic of efficiency of a claimed all powerful god. It makes absolutely NO sense at all to stick your favorite product on a speck of dust out in this gigantic sea of hostility where life cannot exist in the majority of the universe, and on top of that, make it impossible to migrate off this rock while insisting we follow this claimed being who gave us all these various books and religions that we end up needlessly murdering each other over. Not only is this alleged "plan" flawed on efficiency alone, there is also no logical way to claim this god is moral in the slightest. At best, if we are to assume for argument's sake only, that such a being existed, we could only be property, toys, lab rats.

Yes Brian, exactly. I once had a Deist tell me that "if there is a god, life on Earth is an experiment. And you can't keep meddling with your experiment. You just set the parameters and then observe the results."  I rather liked that take on things, but even that, when you consider billions and billions of galaxies - - - just doesn't really make sense.

(March 18, 2016 at 10:24 am)drfuzzy Wrote: Yes Brian, exactly. I once had a Deist tell me that "if there is a god, life on Earth is an experiment. And you can't keep meddling with your experiment. You just set the parameters and then observe the results."  I rather liked that take on things, but even that, when you consider billions and billions of galaxies - - - just doesn't really make sense.

Deist aren't any better, neither are pantheists, those are simply watered down woo where the gap answer tries to avoid the divisions the old woo does, but it is still a gap answer. It is simply better logic to accept that our gods and religions were not around 4 billion years ago, or 14 billion years ago, and there is no need to gap fill with old religion or even a generic deity. The universe did fine prior to our existence and it will continue on long after we go extinct. We CAN as a species be positive about our ability, IF IF IF, we pull our collective heads out of our asses, we can be positive about finding ways to extend our finite ride. 

There simply is no going back for me while I retain my lucid state, while my marbles are in tact, to go back to believing in sky wizards. I know too much about the size of our universe, to think that our god's or religions we create are important to the universe. It was understandable when humans didn't know any better that they made such bad guesses, but we know better now.

And now consider that there is absolutely no reason to think that the universe stops anywhere near our current horizon. The size of the observable universe is just an accidental limitation. It is almost certainly many orders of magnitude bigger.

(March 18, 2016 at 10:38 am)Alex K Wrote: And now consider that there is absolutely no reason to think that the universe stops anywhere near our current horizon. The size of the observable universe is just an accidental limitation. It is almost certainly many orders of magnitude bigger.

Yep, all 7 billion living now, and all who have lived in the past, and all who will live until our extinction, are a very tiny blip on the cosmic scale in the cosmic time frame.

But, but, but, that means that humans are probably not special, probably not unique, probably not a one off. Most of the people I deal with daily do not have the ability to fathom this concept.

Jeez, and I'm the bad guy for telling scary and depressing stories to the kiddies! Lol.

First I am an atheist because that's what people call you when you don't believe in any gods. (Sometimes they call you something worse.)

Second I don't believe in the xtian god for two reasons. First because I'm told it is something supernatural (and I've yet to find even one object that belonged in that category). Second because the description of that god is just too over the top to be believable.