(March 21, 2011 at 7:28 pm)reverendjeremiah Wrote:

(March 21, 2011 at 6:36 pm)sun Wrote: Once you use your opponents’ holly-book for prove or explanation, you’re admitting the legitimacy of the holiness of that book, or doctrine. Can’t you just say religion stinks at that is final for me…

Then they claim you dont believe out of ignorance and laziness, and all of their friends start nodding their heads.

(March 21, 2011 at 7:24 pm)sun Wrote: When arguing with a theist, just speak the truth and say out right that religion and god are fake, you’re wasting your time and brains mister!

I normally pick and choose my fights, especially in public view. And saying religion and gods are fake is not what I tell them. I say that religious books are fiction with a dose of historical places and events to make the story more convincing, and that Gods and angel and ghosts are merely fictional characters that exist only in our imaginations and the media we invent them upon as far as I am concerned.

Telling them that it is fake will only piss them off, especially if they know something about definitions and philosophy.

P.S. - Could you please quit SCREAMING on the forum?

There is an old adage, even though it doesn’t make any sense, which says: “Use elephant bones to break elephant bones!”
Clearly, some claim that you need religion to disprove religion.
But, I understand that you can debunk religion by using logic rather than the bible.

(March 21, 2011 at 7:38 pm)sun Wrote: There is an old adage, even though it doesn’t make any sense, which says: “Use elephant bones to break elephant bones!”
Clearly, some claim that you need religion to disprove religion.
But, I understand that you can debunk religion by using logic rather than the bible.

How do you use logic on someone who has decided to ignore it and embrace the philosophical suicide of blind faith? How good will evidence work on someone who prefers to ignore it and embrace faith? I personally try to avoid PUBLICLY from getting into a bible verse competition. I merely point out how pointless and absurd religion or even the possibility of any meaning of life is. I point out the very well recorded history of people at each others throats over religion and politics and "the meaning of life". Then I try to focus on what we have in common.

(March 21, 2011 at 7:38 pm)sun Wrote: But, I understand that you can debunk religion by using logic rather than the bible.

But for Christians the bible trumps logic, science and reason. It contains the supernatural and demands faith in things that can't logically be explained away or dis-proven when it invokes the supernatural and magical all powerful god as it's answer to everything. Pointing out contradictions, absurdities and holes in the bibles legitimacy is sometimes the only angle you can take with someone who thinks they have all the answers in a book that has none.

(March 21, 2011 at 7:38 pm)sun Wrote: There is an old adage, even though it doesn’t make any sense, which says: “Use elephant bones to break elephant bones!”
Clearly, some claim that you need religion to disprove religion.
But, I understand that you can debunk religion by using logic rather than the bible.

"How do you convince someone they're not thinking clearly when they're not thinking clearly?" - Phil Plait

I don't see anything wrong with using religion to disprove religion. If someone was says to me that the story of Cinderella is true then I am going to use the story to disprove that belief. To religious people their holy texts are the highest form of truth so pointing out the problems with such texts is an important tool in debunking religion. To me, not doing so is the equivalent of bringing a knife to a gun fight.

(March 21, 2011 at 7:24 pm)sun Wrote: When arguing with a theist, just speak the truth and say out right that religion and god are fake, you’re wasting your time and brains mister!

You do know that just spitting out religion and god is fake will probably stir up a fight? People usually/sometimes pick out contradictions in the holy books to agrue against religion. I really don't see a problem with that and is far more better than just saying god and religion is bullshit since it is far more logical.

(March 21, 2011 at 7:28 pm)reverendjeremiah Wrote: Then they claim you dont believe out of ignorance and laziness, and all of their friends start nodding their heads.

Exactly.

How can you disagree with something... hold an opposite opinion if you haven't the first clue about what you're opposing?

Ignorance is fine... nobody is going to shoot you for not knowing. Your real position then is apathetic or pure agnostic. Not atheist.

(March 21, 2011 at 7:38 pm)sun Wrote:

(March 21, 2011 at 7:28 pm)reverendjeremiah Wrote:

(March 21, 2011 at 6:36 pm)sun Wrote: Once you use your opponents’ holly-book for prove or explanation, you’re admitting the legitimacy of the holiness of that book, or doctrine. Can’t you just say religion stinks at that is final for me…

Then they claim you dont believe out of ignorance and laziness, and all of their friends start nodding their heads.

(March 21, 2011 at 7:24 pm)sun Wrote: When arguing with a theist, just speak the truth and say out right that religion and god are fake, you’re wasting your time and brains mister!

I normally pick and choose my fights, especially in public view. And saying religion and gods are fake is not what I tell them. I say that religious books are fiction with a dose of historical places and events to make the story more convincing, and that Gods and angel and ghosts are merely fictional characters that exist only in our imaginations and the media we invent them upon as far as I am concerned.

Telling them that it is fake will only piss them off, especially if they know something about definitions and philosophy.

P.S. - Could you please quit SCREAMING on the forum?

There is an old adage, even though it doesn’t make any sense, which says: “Use elephant bones to break elephant bones!”
Clearly, some claim that you need religion to disprove religion.
But, I understand that you can debunk religion by using logic rather than the bible.

Good luck there sun

(March 22, 2011 at 2:36 am)fr0d0 Wrote:

(March 21, 2011 at 7:28 pm)reverendjeremiah Wrote: Then they claim you dont believe out of ignorance and laziness, and all of their friends start nodding their heads.

Exactly.

How can you disagree with something... hold an opposite opinion if you haven't the first clue about what you're opposing?

Ignorance is fine... nobody is going to shoot you for not knowing. Your real position then is apathetic or pure agnostic. Not atheist.

Creationist do it all the time when they oppose evolution, most of them either don't (or won't)understand how it works and then use that misunderstanding to then claim it's false.

(March 22, 2011 at 6:18 am)Zen Badger Wrote: Creationist do it all the time when they oppose evolution, most of them either don't (or won't)understand how it works and then use that misunderstanding to then claim it's false.

I'm with you sister!