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RE: Has anyone discovered a successful way to make religious people atheist?
April 11, 2016 at 10:51 pm
(April 11, 2016 at 10:47 pm)Won2blv Wrote: Just to be clear, this is not a JW tract
I don't believe I claimed it was. I love reading Watchtower-sourced tracts, though. They're hilarious!
A Christian told me: if you were saved you cant lose your salvation. you're sealed with the Holy Ghost
I replied: Can I refuse? Because I find the entire concept of vicarious blood sacrifice atonement to be morally abhorrent, the concept of holding flawed creatures permanently accountable for social misbehaviors and thought crimes to be morally abhorrent, and the concept of calling something "free" when it comes with the strings of subjugation and obedience perhaps the most morally abhorrent of all... and that's without even going into the history of justifying genocide, slavery, rape, misogyny, religious intolerance, and suppression of free speech which has been attributed by your own scriptures to your deity. I want a refund. I would burn happily rather than serve the monster you profess to love.
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RE: Has anyone discovered a successful way to make religious people atheist?
April 11, 2016 at 10:53 pm
(This post was last modified: April 11, 2016 at 10:55 pm by ApeNotKillApe.)
(April 11, 2016 at 10:51 pm)TheRocketSurgeon Wrote: (April 11, 2016 at 10:47 pm)Won2blv Wrote: Just to be clear, this is not a JW tract
I don't believe I claimed it was. I love reading Watchtower-sourced tracts, though. They're hilarious!
I had JW relatives growing up; received plenty of that shit, made for good entertainment. And serviceable toilet paper.
I am John Cena's hip-hop album.
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RE: Has anyone discovered a successful way to make religious people atheist?
April 11, 2016 at 10:55 pm
(April 11, 2016 at 10:48 pm)Goosebump Wrote: (April 11, 2016 at 10:46 pm)Won2blv Wrote: What I am simply saying is that if you're genuinely asking for a successful way to make religious people atheist, then being more empathetic is key to it. That doesn't mean that you have to pretend to be a theist, or expect them to pretend to be atheist. It simply means that you have reason with them in a way that is bridge building instead of missile throwing
Right, civility. Empathy is impossible.
Empathy is simply the ability to understand someones feelings. It doesn't meant that you have to adopt them. Trust me, when I told a few close people that I am going towards atheism they almost all asked me, "but don't you want to see your mom again" I understand why this is a reason alone to want to believe in god. It doesn't justify that belief but its very reasonable why many people would simply just want to see their loved ones again.
One thing that I am very grateful for, being raised a JW I was constantly going door to door and engaging with people face to face. It helped me to learn how to reason and see things from another point of view. This is vital. If you're not able or willing to consider the other side of an argument then how well grounded can you be in your own beliefs? Its so much easier to be honest when you grant dignity to the other sides point of view. And if you concede that, even hypothetically, then you have no burden on your end.
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RE: Has anyone discovered a successful way to make religious people atheist?
April 11, 2016 at 10:56 pm
(April 11, 2016 at 10:53 pm)ApeNotKillApe Wrote: (April 11, 2016 at 10:51 pm)TheRocketSurgeon Wrote: I don't believe I claimed it was. I love reading Watchtower-sourced tracts, though. They're hilarious!
I had JW relatives growing up; received plenty of that shit, made for good entertainment. And toilet paper.
The last time my JoHo relatives visited me I made sure they left their books outside and ensured they know I'm an atheist and have no interest in hearing about their cult.
Playing Cluedo with my mum while I was at Uni:
"You did WHAT? With WHO? WHERE???"
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RE: Has anyone discovered a successful way to make religious people atheist?
April 11, 2016 at 10:56 pm
It's hard to beat the good old Chick Tract, though, for sheer entertainment value.
Personal favorite is Dark Dungeons, an anti-D&D tract which warns about how it'll make your kids dabble in witchcraft and kill themselves. They did a great MST3K spoof of it:
http://www.humpin.org/mst3kdd/
A Christian told me: if you were saved you cant lose your salvation. you're sealed with the Holy Ghost
I replied: Can I refuse? Because I find the entire concept of vicarious blood sacrifice atonement to be morally abhorrent, the concept of holding flawed creatures permanently accountable for social misbehaviors and thought crimes to be morally abhorrent, and the concept of calling something "free" when it comes with the strings of subjugation and obedience perhaps the most morally abhorrent of all... and that's without even going into the history of justifying genocide, slavery, rape, misogyny, religious intolerance, and suppression of free speech which has been attributed by your own scriptures to your deity. I want a refund. I would burn happily rather than serve the monster you profess to love.
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RE: Has anyone discovered a successful way to make religious people atheist?
April 11, 2016 at 11:01 pm
(April 11, 2016 at 10:56 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: (April 11, 2016 at 10:53 pm)ApeNotKillApe Wrote: I had JW relatives growing up; received plenty of that shit, made for good entertainment. And toilet paper.
The last time my JoHo relatives visited me I made sure they left their books outside and ensured they know I'm an atheist and have no interest in hearing about their cult.
To be fair, every religion is a cult right?
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RE: Has anyone discovered a successful way to make religious people atheist?
April 11, 2016 at 11:02 pm
I do like asking Christians (of various flavors), any time I hear them criticize a "wrong" religion or mentioning a cult leader, for them to explain to me the alleged difference between their religion and a cult, other than membership numbers.
A Christian told me: if you were saved you cant lose your salvation. you're sealed with the Holy Ghost
I replied: Can I refuse? Because I find the entire concept of vicarious blood sacrifice atonement to be morally abhorrent, the concept of holding flawed creatures permanently accountable for social misbehaviors and thought crimes to be morally abhorrent, and the concept of calling something "free" when it comes with the strings of subjugation and obedience perhaps the most morally abhorrent of all... and that's without even going into the history of justifying genocide, slavery, rape, misogyny, religious intolerance, and suppression of free speech which has been attributed by your own scriptures to your deity. I want a refund. I would burn happily rather than serve the monster you profess to love.
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RE: Has anyone discovered a successful way to make religious people atheist?
April 11, 2016 at 11:04 pm
(April 11, 2016 at 11:02 pm)TheRocketSurgeon Wrote: I do like asking Christians (of various flavors), any time I hear them criticize a "wrong" religion or mentioning a cult leader, for them to explain to me the alleged difference between their religion and a cult, other than membership numbers.
The term cult is over (mis)used. But using the layman definition, every religion is a cult
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RE: Has anyone discovered a successful way to make religious people atheist?
April 11, 2016 at 11:06 pm
(April 11, 2016 at 10:55 pm)Won2blv Wrote: (April 11, 2016 at 10:48 pm)Goosebump Wrote: Right, civility. Empathy is impossible.
Empathy is simply the ability to understand someones feelings. It doesn't meant that you have to adopt them. Trust me, when I told a few close people that I am going towards atheism they almost all asked me, "but don't you want to see your mom again" I understand why this is a reason alone to want to believe in god. It doesn't justify that belief but its very reasonable why many people would simply just want to see their loved ones again.
One thing that I am very grateful for, being raised a JW I was constantly going door to door and engaging with people face to face. It helped me to learn how to reason and see things from another point of view. This is vital. If you're not able or willing to consider the other side of an argument then how well grounded can you be in your own beliefs? Its so much easier to be honest when you grant dignity to the other sides point of view. And if you concede that, even hypothetically, then you have no burden on your end.
Yes empathy is emotionally relating, but in-order to do that you have to have the same or similar influences on them (your emotions) that theist belief or atheist understanding brings to those feelings. I can't honestly empathize when discussing a religions doctrine with a theist. Their emotions related to their belief are from the belief its self. I do not have that belief, which is fundamental to my atheism.
"I'm thick." - Me
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RE: Has anyone discovered a successful way to make religious people atheist?
April 11, 2016 at 11:09 pm
(April 11, 2016 at 11:01 pm)Won2blv Wrote: (April 11, 2016 at 10:56 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: The last time my JoHo relatives visited me I made sure they left their books outside and ensured they know I'm an atheist and have no interest in hearing about their cult.
To be fair, every religion is a cult right?
To an extent, yes.
However, any religion that practices cutting off believers from their families, especially when one of those members leaves the religion, then it's definitely a cult.
Playing Cluedo with my mum while I was at Uni:
"You did WHAT? With WHO? WHERE???"
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