(April 15, 2016 at 5:06 pm)Ignorant Wrote: Wisdom is for everyone, including the poor.

I'm rather tired of people thinking that wisdom is of any interest to anyone striving to survive. It's adding insult to injury. I posted that song for the lyrics. Especially for the first two lines. Your rambling doesn't fill any bellies.

If you're fed and have a roof over your head, you may start to appreciate philosophy. If not, it's as useless as garbage.

(April 15, 2016 at 5:44 pm)abaris Wrote:

(April 15, 2016 at 5:06 pm)Ignorant Wrote: Wisdom is for everyone, including the poor.

I'm rather tired of people thinking that wisdom is of any interest to anyone striving to survive. It's adding insult to injury. I posted that song for the lyrics. Especially for the first two lines. Your rambling doesn't fill any bellies.

If you're fed and have a roof over your head, you may start to appreciate philosophy. If not, it's as useless as garbage.

It seems to me that wisdom is of great interest to anyone striving to survive. Wise people will have a better chance to fill their bellies. Consider for example the question which you find very important: "What is the best way to fill my belly?" If wisdom has nothing to do with an answer to that question, then we mean two different things when we write "wisdom".

(April 15, 2016 at 5:31 pm)Ignorant Wrote:

(April 15, 2016 at 5:23 pm)TheRocketSurgeon Wrote: And Capitalism is not?

What makes you think I would say that capitalism is not an ideology?

Because it has run so un-checked in Western nations that it has become the "default", and people don't even realize the degree to which they are endorsing/practicing an ideology... one that, amusingly to me, seems to be almost the opposite of the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth, since those all claim to be "Christian" nations.

It is difficult for most people to see the degree to which their own biases inform their ability to assimilate new information into their worldview, unless trained to do so (it is part of the training to become a scientist, for instance, in which eliminating bias to the highest degree possible is part of the Method). 

I had a Catholic debater in here, earlier this week, who took my information about how the brain informs a person's concept of sexual identity beyond their own ability to control (something we discovered via fMRI scans), and he twisted it to say that I was indicating a soul. As he knew of my former career in biology, I was a little surprised that it was possible to read that any other way but "your genetics, epigenetics, and embryonic- and child-development cause your brain to form in manner X, which causes you to behave in manner X". But his filter got him, I came to realize.

Since you asserted that "unwise" people think filling bellies is important (paraphrase, of course, except the quotation marks), it stood to reason that many of the lies told by those promoting the Capitalist ideology had gotten through and installed themselves in your mental filter.

(April 15, 2016 at 5:06 pm)Ignorant Wrote: Don't be fooled, marxism/socialism is a philosophy (more accurately an ideology [edit]).

I can't really take you seriously on this matter if you think that Marxism, Socialism, let alone Communism, are the same. They aren't, as you would know if you had any knowledge on the matter.

Marx was the classic philosopher, never claiming to be anithing else. In the same way as Thomas Morus and his Utopia never was anything else than an ideal.

@TheRocketSurgeon

Fair enough. I know you said its a paraphrase, but where did I assert that "unwise" people think filling bellies is important? I only ask because I hold the OPPOSITE view quite strongly, and would like to correct any ambiguity in the future. Can you point to my words which you are paraphrasing?

(April 15, 2016 at 6:15 pm)Ignorant Wrote: @TheRocketSurgeon

Fair enough. I know you said its a paraphrase, but where did I assert that "unwise" people think filling bellies is important? I only ask because I hold the OPPOSITE view quite strongly, and would like to correct any ambiguity in the future. Can you point to my words which you are paraphrasing?

Gladly. I grabbed it whole... bold emphasis my own.

Ignorant Wrote:Wisdom is for everyone, including the poor [edit]. Technical discussions about specifics, obviously, is not. Unwise people fill very few bellys or pay many hospital bills. Wise people may do both and help others to do the same. If you are for that, you are for philosophy. Don't be fooled, marxism/socialism is a philosophy (more accurately an ideology [edit]).

ETA: Incidentally, the word is "bellies".

(April 15, 2016 at 6:12 pm)abaris Wrote:

(April 15, 2016 at 5:06 pm)Ignorant Wrote: Don't be fooled, marxism/socialism is a philosophy (more accurately an ideology [edit]).

I can't really take you seriously on this matter if you think that Marxism, Socialism, let alone Communism, are the same. They aren't, as you would know if you had any knowledge on the matter.

Marx was the classic philosopher, never claiming to be anithing else. In the same way as Thomas Morus and his Utopia never was anything else than an ideal.

Actually, Marx claimed to be a scientist, a socio-economic scientist whose scientific prediction was the immanent and future development of capitalism into socialism by means of the worker revolution. 

A "/" can also mean "or", but since you mentioned it, can you help me to see the differences between those three terms?

(April 15, 2016 at 6:30 pm)Ignorant Wrote: Actually, Marx claimed to be a scientist, a socio-economic scientist whose scientific prediction was the immanent and future development of capitalism into socialism by means of the worker revolution. 

Citation needed.

Due warning. The early Marx isn't the same as the late Marx, coworking with Engels, who's quite an interesting figure in his own right.

(April 15, 2016 at 6:19 pm)TheRocketSurgeon Wrote:

Ignorant Wrote:Wisdom is for everyone, including the poor [edit]. Technical discussions about specifics, obviously, is not. Unwise people fill very few bellys or pay many hospital bills. Wise people may do both and help others to do the same. If you are for that, you are for philosophy. Don't be fooled, marxism/socialism is a philosophy (more accurately an ideology [edit]).

ETA: Incidentally, the word is "bellies".

Ha! Thanks for the spell check. I see the ambiguity. I meant that unwise people fill very few bellies, not because they think it is important, but because their lack of wisdom limits their ability to fill MORE bellies (A wise person can and would fill more bellies than an unwise one)

A wise and an unwise person can both think full bellies important, but the wise one will be better at filling them. Thinking it is important, and deliberating which ways are best given the evidence of reality IS philosophy. Deciding which way is best before evaluating reality is ideology.

(April 15, 2016 at 6:36 pm)Ignorant Wrote: Thinking it is important, and deliberating which ways are best given the evidence of reality IS philosophy. Deciding which way is best before evaluating reality is ideology.

Yes, the only thing coming to mind here is this.



A reality check may be in order.