(April 24, 2016 at 9:27 am)robvalue Wrote: No, it's refreshing that there isn't one. You see, almost any conversation we ever have on here with a theist is a thinly veiled attempt to shoehorn their personal woo into some sort of believable context. And we can generally see it coming a mile off every time. So it's great that isn't the case here. Yup, it's really sad. But that's what they mostly do, day in day out.

Well I'm sure you see it a lot. I just want to consider the ideas in the arguments themselves, and follow the logic where it leads. Hopefully everyone else does too.

You bet!

That's what has made this one of the best discussions I've had on the forum with a theist. I've given up even trying to debate most of them. Believe me, I gave them all a good run first.

As for knowledge, it's always conditional. There is no certainty, as I was saying. We have reasonable conclusions and theories that stand scrutiny, and that's our knowledge, until such time as it's refined. What I'm saying is we can't know things about the unknown, just by assuming things work a certain way. I long since accepted that we just model what we can, and that's as far as it goes. We're each trapped in a subjective frame of reference, and not even in the reality we want to learn about. We're in a VR simulation created by our own brains. Certainty is just not practical.

(April 24, 2016 at 10:10 am)robvalue Wrote: That's what has made this one of the best discussions I've had on the forum with a theist. I've given up even trying to debate most of them. Believe me, I gave them all a good run first.

Well I am very glad you've enjoyed it, and I am sure the theists are better off having been challenged by you and the others here. Don't give up on us theists just yet!

Thank you

Indeed, I'd never write them all off. I treat each one as a new individual and give them every chance to have an honest discussion.

I really would like to see new and challenging arguments. This is a different angle you've brought here, which is a novelty. We normally get the same dozen or so flawed logical arguments for God in rotation, by people who think we've never heard them before. Boring.

Sigh. I'm going to give my brain a rest by going back to my dorm at off topic campus. This thread has been interesting. Thank you, ignorant for making this thread. Also, I've enjoyed reading this back and forth with Robvalue. I have enjoyed my morning coffee sitting at the table as a learner. Great stuff!