(May 9, 2016 at 11:11 am)Emjay Wrote:

(May 9, 2016 at 9:50 am)Whateverist the White Wrote: I spend much more time trying to imagine how anyone could believe in God/gods than in looking for reasons not to.  I think god belief must have served a purpose but the bible just couldn't be any less useful.  The origins of religious experience interest me but I have zero temptation to join a society of bible worshipers.  If you think the bible is your ticket into the mysteries you're basically just screwed.

It's not like this for me all the time, just occasionally. Most of the time I operate from a much more positive position like you of asking what possible reasons there are to believe - and there aren't any that come to mind, but since I have this Christian baggage occasionally I have doubts. But it's only because I have knowledge of the religion that I haven't 'unlearned' (not sure if you can unlearn anything per se)... I don't have similar doubts about any of the countless other religions I have no knowledge of. So it's just the doubts that come from the fact that once something is posited it exists in a sense to be disproved.

Well I'm sure I got a very light dose of Christianity.  I can only imagine what it would be like to leave if any of these factors were in play:

•   You had a lot of good times with loved ones and friends in religious experiences;
•   You convinced yourself God was real, loved Him and were happy doing so;
•   You spent time defending the bible's weaknesses.
•   You actually tried to "witness to others", engage in apologetics or actually tried to enlist new believers.

Any one of these would be tough.  All of them would be traumatic to leave.  The only one that was a factor for me was the second.  It could be a lot worse.

It's not real.
It's a man made fantasy.
It's a fantasy with the ability to create delusions of grandeur.
It's a fantasy that gives the wielders unrestrained power.
It's a fantasy that is used to control the feeble minded.

I'd say more but I have to go now and take my freak off.

Does the OP want our reasons for not believing Christianity, specifically? Or in a god or gods, more generally?

My reasons for not believing in a god or gods in general, are that no theist has ever presented a case that I find convincing. My criteria for believing in existential claims are: demonstrable evidence, reasoned argument, and valid and sound logic.

As soon as a god claim can pass the above criteria, I will believe.

(May 9, 2016 at 9:05 am)Emjay Wrote: What are your most convincing reasons for not believing in god? I don't mean convincing to other people (necessarily) but convincing to yourself... what reasons stop you going back (if you are an ex-theist) even if you wanted to?

I'm an ex-Christian so I have baggage and I admit that very occasionally I am tempted back but one of the reasons that prevents me is simply the fact of contradictions in the Bible: if there are contradictions it can't be infallible, and if it's not infallible but only 'inspired' then how can you trust any of it (or know what to trust)? Ultimately it is that reason that stops me in my tracks if I'm ever tempted to read the Bible again... I literally cannot get past the first few pages of Genesis without thinking 'this is silly' even if I actually want to go back to Christianity.

I'd love to hear what other core reasons people have for not believing... reasons that act like mental blocks to ever returning. Ashamedly I do have doubts from time to time and so am not 100% certain like Rob, but I'd like to be, and I think having a few more core reasons (rather than superficial/semantic reasons) would help 

I grew up as a Christian and have been put off that god by the stories of Adam and Eve and floods vs what I've learned from other sources of information about evolution and reality. Basically the stories of the bible, how they sound pretty made up, they involve magic, talking animals, illogical scenarios.

First impressions count the most, and my first impressions involving stories of God are already tarnished.  Add to that experience of debating with Muslims who have pretty much identical illogical stories.

Other than that I don't have a core disbelief in god really, I just see no evidence yet to say there's a god.

I had lots of little things that bothered me as a tween, teen and young adult. The bible having horrible lessons as well as contradictions was one, but even that and all the stupid answers from clergy and other adults did not kill my belief, just moved it towards deism.

I think the thing that got me, and still gets me most, is realizing Zeus and Posidon and Odin and Ra were all manmade...therefore so are all of them. A modern day priest sprinkling holy water on a person and speaking a benediction is not in any way different from an ancient priest doing whatever their magic rites called for.

Then along came Q, and I realized this hypothetical alien fit most definitions of a god. So even if it turns out there is a conciousness that created us, it would just be another form of life. Advanced technology seems like magic and all that. Nothing "supernatural" exists, nor can it. It's a nonsense word. If there is magic, or dragons, or gods, or telekinesis, it would turn out in all cases that they have a natural causes and/or explanations, just like it has with everything else.

As a kid, I loved to read Norse and Irish mythologies. As much as I enjoyed the stories, I knew - on a gut level - that they weren't true. There was no Thor, no Loki, no Cúchulainn and no Ferdiad. But when it came to Bible stories, I was expected to believe in David, in Sampson, in Jacob, and scads of tales of mighty men, magic spells, terrifying adventures, and so forth.

So, I suppose what convinces me most, on a personal level, is that I honestly can't tell the difference between a mythic tale and a 'sacred' text. I know that Joshua didn't destroy Jericho with trumpets in exactly the same fashion that I know Fergus of Ulster didn't cut three hills in half with his sword.

Boru

The contradictions.

The fact that they need apologetics to explain their deity's "actions".

The fact that many of the claims have been proved wrong and there's no supporting evidence.

The fact that there are thousands of different denominations of the same religion.

Science.

Because I value humans too much to think they need saving from anyone, especially not themselves.  I think more of humanity than that.

1. No evidence
2. Sounds silly and made up by men. And I mean men and not people. Christianity has a very forceful male God when during those times men ruled over women through force? Yeah, couldn't be more obviously made up
3. Special pleading. God is supposed to explain everything but no one ever explains him
4. I never believed, was never brought up to believe, so to me believing in God is as crazy as believing in mythological gods