(May 14, 2016 at 1:09 am)Sterben Wrote:

(May 14, 2016 at 12:46 am)The_Empress Wrote: ... but you still have to live with whomever is elected.

      At least my ethics stay intact, and I'm able to say with a prime voice "All of you who voted for her or him, this a problem not mine. I stayed out of it, so I would not be held accountable by your actions."

... and that does what, exactly?

Makes him complicit in electing the opposition.

(May 14, 2016 at 1:09 am)Sterben Wrote:

(May 14, 2016 at 12:46 am)The_Empress Wrote: ... but you still have to live with whomever is elected.

      At least my ethics stay intact, and I'm able to say with a prime voice "All of you who voted for her or him, this a problem not mine. I stayed out of it, so I would not be held accountable by your actions."

I disagree that your ethics would be intact. Failing to act to stop a greater evil is in no way ethical. That would be like standing by and letting a violent crime proceed which you could have stopped and then patting yourself on the back because you refrained from using violence. Staying out of it is not the high ground. It's avoiding responsibility and is nothing to be admired.

No need to be hard on those choosing to stay home and pout. I've called the election already: Clinton's got it.

Mark my words folks; I have a knack for this! 
I've called every election, (usually during primary season) since Bush/Dukakis and have only been wrong once. I can hardly blame myself for Gore v Bush though, right? 

I'm somewhat of a Nate Silver...minus the research, models, and statistical analysis, of course. The only thing I can attribute my stunning accuracy to is having my finger on the pulse of America...heh heh. 
If I'm wrong, I solemnly swear to eat an entire f*cking loaf of bread.

(May 14, 2016 at 1:04 am)SteelCurtain Wrote:

(May 14, 2016 at 12:38 am)Sterben Wrote:             They did more then lie about the Iraq war, we should of been brought up on war crimes for the actions we did. You are a liberal, one of the best ones I know on this board.

So you fault Hillary for acting on the intelligence that we all had at that time? I won't fault any Congressmen for voting for the Iraq War. I would have. It was a horrendous blunder, and it was all started off by a warmongering administration. Dick Cheney is a war criminal. He used a major terror incident on American soil to parley a war.

(May 14, 2016 at 12:38 am)Sterben Wrote: I hate Trump and heavily dis-agree with Hillary. Take for instance her dream act idea, allowing the parents of children of illegal immigrants to be granted citizenship. A prime example; That idea is very costly, I agree that they should be allowed the path to citizenship, not to be given citizenship just cause the mother gave birth to a child on U.S soil.

The DREAM Act was introduced by a Republican (Orrin Hatch of all people) in 2001 and is exactly a path to citizenship. It doesn't grant anyone citizenship. It would stop them from being deported just because 'Murrica. It came about when the Republican Tag Line was "Compassionate Conservatives." You are so uninformed about what you're talking about, it's silly.

(May 14, 2016 at 12:38 am)Sterben Wrote: The fact that if your born on American soil you typically get citizenship has always bothered me.(http://immigration.findlaw.com/citizensh...birth.html).

What other criteria would you suggest?  

(May 14, 2016 at 12:38 am)Sterben Wrote: Her support of big banks has always bothered me as well. So, I don't hate her by any means. She's just not in sync with what I want done in my country. Trump on the other hand I oppose fully, I'm just not willing to throw my support Hillary based on a lot of her ideas.

She's supported by money. Yes. That is a legitimate concern. I agree with your concern.

If you are a socially liberal person, she supports 95% of the issues that matter to you.

I want to ask you some questions, Sterben. You have a tendency to duck and run as soon as anyone challenges any point you've made. So hopefully you'll actually engage this time.

1) Specifically what direction do you want this country to go?
2) Which of the policies that Hillary supports do you not support?
3) Which ideas of Hillary's do you oppose?
4) Why do you question whether Hillary is a liberal?
5) What makes you think risking a Trump presidency is worth it?

         Well now, I shall answer your questions in the order you asked them.

Question one:Specifically what direction do you want this country to go?
A: I would like to see America become less of a corrupt country. A place were people can be become educated without become a financial slave to the system, and too be able to support themselves and their family's. A country to were one can retirement is obtainable by everyone, not just the higher classes and the elites. A country that rebelled and freed themselves from big banks and corrupt practices that lobbyist implement. My final closing statement on this question; our military and politicians, those who have committed and gave authorization to commit these war crimes through the decades. We has the citizens of the U.S.A need to hold all these people accountable for their actions. Now to the dismantling of the N.S.A, and reducing the power that C.I.A and the F.B.I has in the country. These groups have been out of control for a too long now, they need to be put back in check on what they can and can't do.

Question five: I would gamble on a possible Trump presidency on the basis of, "You let him move in, and he trashed the house." The power in that statement is worth it alone when things get bad. Has an added bonus, will be able to rid our selves him from our society when he convicted of crimes against humanity. I'm willing to stand a year or two of him being commander and chief to see that trial go down.
   The rest of your questions I'll get back to you tomorrow on, I do have work in the A.M and it's already late.

(May 13, 2016 at 9:37 pm)Sterben Wrote: I'm staying home in November, how about you?

I've always lived by the particular reasoning that if you don't get out to vote, you have no right to complain about who gets into office.

Will my choice win? Perhaps not, but I'm going to vote regardless. Thing is, at least I will have done my constitutional right and exercised my voting arm. Then when things go wrong, at least I can say that I voted to try and make a difference. So - to all those who plan on not voting, keep your political gripes to yourselves when you're unhappy with things. You lose the right to complain when you chose to step back and let others decide for you.

This election is NOT just about voting for a president. There are also state and local leaders that need to be elected as well. By not exercising your right to vote, you are effectively not voting to make a difference in the city or town as well as the state that you live in. Again, you're letting others make that choice for you. Depending on where you live, there also might be other things like ballot questions that need input from the "people". Without your input on those things, you are saying you don't care what happens.

No vote = no voice = not willing to try and change things.

(May 14, 2016 at 12:38 am)Sterben Wrote: She's just not in sync with what I want done in my country. Trump on the other hand I oppose fully, I'm just not willing to throw my support Hillary based on a lot of her ideas.

Again, then write in a candidate. Honestly, if you choose to not vote because you think you are taking some sort of stand, then I promise that every single time you get on here to gripe about the state of our country, I will be right there telling you to shut up, simply because you refused to make a difference by voting. And again - You don't get rights to complain about how this country is being run if you refuse to vote.

(May 14, 2016 at 1:50 am)Thena323 Wrote: No need to be hard on those choosing to stay home and pout.

Those are the ones we need to be the hardest on. They are not helping make changes in this country by being obstinate about not voting. They are the very first ones to complain that the country isn't being run the way "they like". Well perhaps it would have if they voted.

(May 14, 2016 at 1:12 am)The_Empress Wrote:

(May 14, 2016 at 1:09 am)Sterben Wrote:       At least my ethics stay intact, and I'm able to say with a prime voice "All of you who voted for her or him, this a problem not mine. I stayed out of it, so I would not be held accountable by your actions."

... and that does what, exactly?

        It's similar to letting someone do something stupid cause your tired of trying to help them. Let them make stupid choices, when they realize that have made a stupid mistake. That leaves them with only themselves to blame, and gives you power of the "I told you it was stupid to do that, now what have we learned?" Or a better example, for those of who remember "Hey Arnold" the episode that Arnold let everyone else do stupid things because he was always trying to help others. They messed things up so bad that a lot of them ran back to him for help and he would not lend a hand to help. That's the point I'm trying to make, I want that leverage to be able to hold over others. That way they will learn not to do as many stupid things as they were doing.
HARTMAN

Private Pyle has dishonored himself and
dishonored the platoon! I
have tried to help
him, but I have failed! I have failed because

you have not helped me! You people have not
given Private Pyle the
proper motivation!
So, from now on, whenever Private Pyle
fucks
up, I will not punish him, I will punish
all of you! And the way I
see it, ladies, you
owe me for one jelly doughnut! Now, get on

your faces!

HARTMAN
(to PYLE)
Open your
mouth!

He shoves the jelly doughnut into PYLE's mouth.


HARTMAN
They're paying for it, you eat it!

HARTMAN turns to the
recruits.

HARTMAN
Ready . . . exercise!


I fully support group blaming, the group that has to pay for someone's decision or actions, Has every right to be pissed off and voice there opinions on what should of been done.

(May 14, 2016 at 1:50 am)Thena323 Wrote: No need to be hard on those choosing to stay home and pout. I've called the election already: Clinton's got it.

Mark my words folks; I have a knack for this! 
I've called every election, (usually during primary season) since Bush/Dukakis and have only been wrong once. I can hardly blame myself for Gore v Bush though, right? 

I'm somewhat of a Nate Silver...minus the research, models, and statistical analysis, of course. The only thing I can attribute my stunning accuracy to is having my finger on the pulse of America...heh heh. 
If I'm wrong, I solemnly swear to eat an entire f*cking loaf of bread.

             Thanks for supporting my point of view, your right Bush vs Gore. Jeb stole that election for George, makes me glad Jeb was barely involved with the GOP this time around.