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RE: Hell and God cant Co-exist.
June 2, 2016 at 1:03 pm
(This post was last modified: June 2, 2016 at 1:34 pm by ApeNotKillApe.)
(June 2, 2016 at 12:47 pm)SteveII Wrote: (June 2, 2016 at 4:20 am)Socratic Meth Head Wrote: God is supposed to be Omnipresent, and Hell is supposed to be a seperation from God.
This makes no sense, they cant co-exist, its one, or neither.
Christians cant sacrifice God's supposed Omnipresense or hell in order to have a somewhat consistent belief.
The supposed paradox is created by not understanding omnipresence. God is present everywhere in the sense that he knows what is happening and sustains his creation in being. That would apply to Hell as well.
If you then talk about the denizens of Hell being separated from God, that is simply in a personal/relational sense. In that sense, they do not have the experience of the presence of God.
Imagined problem solved.
Is God in my asshole? Or does he just know what's going on in my asshole? Can I experience the presence of God in my asshole?
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RE: Hell and God cant Co-exist.
June 2, 2016 at 1:09 pm
(June 2, 2016 at 12:56 pm)SteveII Wrote: (June 2, 2016 at 8:38 am)ChadWooters Wrote: This schoolboy objection must be the latest fad among atheists.
Sometimes I find it humorous to watch the threads get created on topics that have easy answers and then watch all the comments accumulate like something profound has been said. Most times I do not.
To me it just shows that they haven't really thought about it (whatever 'it' is) and really don't want to either. It's just a way for them to make themselves feel superior to believers. They pretend that atheism is the only rational approach then proceed to put their stupidity on display.
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RE: Hell and God cant Co-exist.
June 2, 2016 at 1:16 pm
(June 2, 2016 at 1:09 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: To me it just shows that they haven't really thought about it[...]
The word you're looking for is "fantasize".
"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one." - George Bernard Shaw
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RE: Hell and God cant Co-exist.
June 2, 2016 at 1:19 pm
I don't, in Steve's words, experience the presence of god right now. Does that mean I'm currently in hell?
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RE: Hell and God cant Co-exist.
June 2, 2016 at 1:28 pm
(June 2, 2016 at 12:12 pm)mh.brewer Wrote: It's funny when two (or more) believers can't agree on the same fantasy. Debating which fantasy is correct.
"Believers" is an extremely broad term. Just because two (or more) people believe in God, or even believe in Jesus, doesn't mean they're going to agree on all the smaller details. There's plenty of room for diversity among people of faith just as anything else.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
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RE: Hell and God cant Co-exist.
June 2, 2016 at 1:29 pm
(June 2, 2016 at 1:19 pm)KevinM1 Wrote: I don't, in Steve's words, experience the presence of god right now. Does that mean I'm currently in hell?
Apparently. It's not so bad, is it? I don't see what all the fuss is about... 
"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one." - George Bernard Shaw
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RE: Hell and God cant Co-exist.
June 2, 2016 at 1:30 pm
(June 2, 2016 at 12:47 pm)SteveII Wrote: (June 2, 2016 at 4:20 am)Socratic Meth Head Wrote: God is supposed to be Omnipresent, and Hell is supposed to be a seperation from God.
This makes no sense, they cant co-exist, its one, or neither.
Christians cant sacrifice God's supposed Omnipresense or hell in order to have a somewhat consistent belief.
The supposed paradox is created by not understanding omnipresence. God is present everywhere in the sense that he knows what is happening and sustains his creation in being. That would apply to Hell as well.
If you then talk about the denizens of Hell being separated from God, that is simply in a personal/relational sense. In that sense, they do not have the experience of the presence of God.
Imagined problem solved.
^Exactly this.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: Hell and God cant Co-exist.
June 2, 2016 at 1:33 pm
(June 2, 2016 at 1:28 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: "Believers" is an extremely broad term. Just because two (or more) people believe in God, or even believe in Jesus, doesn't mean they're going to agree on all the smaller details. There's plenty of room for diversity among people of faith just as anything else.
Not "anything else". There's not all that much room for diversity, when it comes to things that are - you know - factual and testable.
"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one." - George Bernard Shaw
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RE: Hell and God cant Co-exist.
June 2, 2016 at 1:36 pm
(June 2, 2016 at 1:19 pm)KevinM1 Wrote: I don't, in Steve's words, experience the presence of god right now. Does that mean I'm currently in hell?
My belief is that if you experience love and goodness, which I'm sure you do because you are a good person, then you are experiencing God.
Hell isn't fully in effect until after we die, because now people still have materialistic distractions to fill whatever void is necessary. When we die, all those distractions are gone and we are left with only ourselves, or our minds/souls, whatever you want to call it. And if a person only has hate and contempt in their heart, they are going to be miserable.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: Hell and God cant Co-exist.
June 2, 2016 at 1:45 pm
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