After first reading Ingersoll in college, I wrote an essay on the concept of hell.

I never saved the writing, I hardly do save my writing, but I think I could do a better job recreating what I knew back then but adding the wisdom I have obtained today.

I am certain there are elements of what I am going to share in the Ingersoll article above.  After all, the man was a great influence on me.  A much better influence than anything in the bible.

Hell.

Hell is just ancient man's attempt to make people behave.  Hell is a concept that only ever existed in the mind of man.  Hell is a concept that certain men took advantage of by incorporating it into a religion only to further control humanity.

The average man was never sick, and the average man is not sick today.  Certain men decided that other men were sick, and they decided that by way of their religious delusions.

Religion has always been the sickness.

Making people think they are sick due to an invented concept known as sin is deplorable.

Furthermore, making people think they will burn for eternity is a symptom of the religious sickness.

Hell was never about a real place.  Sadly, Hell was always about certain minds incapable of distinguishing fantasy from reality.

I daily fantasize about how I wish the world could be, how there was no suffering, no war, no poverty.

I live in the real world and I am a writer.  I write fiction about situations that cannot possibly exist.

At least I know that what I write is fiction.

Moreover, perhaps in the future my writing might be categorized as mythology.  Not religion, goodness forbid, but a mythology that future people are not too bright in distinguishing from history.

(June 3, 2016 at 9:18 pm)Maelstrom Wrote: After first reading Ingersoll in college, I wrote an essay on the concept of hell.

I never saved the writing, I hardly do save my writing, but I think I could do a better job recreating what I knew back then but adding the wisdom I have obtained today.

I am certain there are elements of what I am going to share in the Ingersoll article above.  After all, the man was a great influence on me.  A much better influence than anything in the bible.

Hell.

Hell is just ancient man's attempt to make people behave.  Hell is a concept that only ever existed in the mind of man.  Hell is a concept that certain men took advantage of by incorporating it into a religion only to further control humanity.

The average man was never sick, and the average man is not sick today.  Certain men decided that other men were sick, and they decided that by way of their religious delusions.

Religion has always been the sickness.

Making people think they are sick due to an invented concept known as sin is deplorable.

Furthermore, making people think they will burn for eternity is a symptom of the religious sickness.

Hell was never about a real place.  Sadly, Hell was always about certain minds incapable of distinguishing fantasy from reality.

I daily fantasize about how I wish the world could be, how there was no suffering, no war, no poverty.

I live in the real world and I am a writer.  I write fiction about situations that cannot possibly exist.

At least I know that what I write is fiction.

Moreover, perhaps in the future my writing might be categorized as mythology.  Not religion, goodness forbid, but a mythology that future people are not too bright in distinguishing from history.

The problem with your theory is that while what you say, may have been true in some later times and cultures concerning Christianity, it is not reflected in the original teachings.....

(June 3, 2016 at 10:19 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote: The problem with your theory is that while what you say, may have been true in some later times and cultures concerning Christianity, it is not reflected in the original teachings.....

Original teachings, please elaborate. I am an inquiring mind.

(June 3, 2016 at 4:12 pm)Esquilax Wrote: There is also the notion of change, of cause and effect as you understand it, and whether or not that applies universally.

So now you’re going to argue against causal order? Give me a break. You objected to the 5th Way by saying that regular causality was a brute fact Typical Ex-Lax...always reaching for the argument of convenience. But that’s okay. I don’t object to people taking the absurdist/nihilist stance if that’s their existential choice.

(June 3, 2016 at 4:12 pm)Esquilax Wrote: ...prior to the big bang, all ideas of how change works go out the window, and this is something supported by all of the physics we currently understand.

You point is mute because it is based on a flawed understanding of physics.
There is no time prior to the big bang. The temporal order was part of what got actualized along with everything else.

(June 3, 2016 at 4:12 pm)Esquilax Wrote: Moreover, your argument loses all force if you present it properly, which is "the evidence we observe suggests that, in our current expansionist universe, actual things can cause change, but they might not be the only thing."

You seem not to realize that the opposite is absurd. Or maybe you do, having taken the absurdist stance.

(June 3, 2016 at 4:12 pm)Esquilax Wrote: Oh, and by the way? Still haven't bothered to connect your spurious argument to the god conclusion you're attempting to make. I know you're searching for distractions to mask that, but that's kinda the big failure here for you. How is your conclusion relevant to the argument at all?

There is very little point in presenting a rational argument to a nihilistic absurdist that questions causality and the thinks things that don’t exist can do things.

All loving god and hell they both contradict each other.
That being said there is no Hell in the OT you would just get scolded
before you enter heaven.

(June 3, 2016 at 11:11 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: There is very little point in presenting a rational argument to a nihilistic absurdist that questions causality and the thinks things that don’t exist can do things.

First of all, I suppose grammar is not your strong suit and never has been.

It is a good thing that I am fluent in your way of simplistic dialogue.

No atheist believes that something that does not exist can actually do anything.

In the end, for atheists, god is a fictional reference during arguments.

You're welcome.

(June 3, 2016 at 11:11 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: You point is mute because it is based on a flawed understanding of physics.
There is no time prior to the big bang. The temporal order was part of what got actualized along with everything else.
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God what I hate more than Christian zealots is Christian zealots using their one track minds when discussing other issues ... Physics, unlike religion can be superseded by new evidence or theories.

Not even top physicists such as Lawrence Krauss would be so egotistical as to state categorically anything, unlike "Christians" science can change with new evidence not just new ways of thinking of previously unproven theories.

(June 3, 2016 at 10:21 pm)Maelstrom Wrote:

(June 3, 2016 at 10:19 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote: The problem with your theory is that while what you say, may have been true in some later times and cultures concerning Christianity, it is not reflected in the original teachings.....

Original teachings, please elaborate. I am an inquiring mind.

http://biblia.com/bible/esv/Eph2.8-9

I don't see what you are saying in either scripture ; nor the early Church...... Above is one example of what I see being taught. Perhaps you can share what you are basing your statements on?

(June 4, 2016 at 12:59 am)RoadRunner79 Wrote:

(June 3, 2016 at 10:21 pm)Maelstrom Wrote: Original teachings, please elaborate.  I am an inquiring mind.

http://biblia.com/bible/esv/Eph2.8-9

I don't see what you are saying in either scripture ; nor the early Church...... Above is one example of what I see being taught.  Perhaps you can share what you are basing your statements on?

The whole savior deal and hell not original to christianity and its not canon. 
IF you were to look at history the reason why that was added back then there was other more popular religions to get
people back into the christian belief the idea was taken from zoroastrianism. 




in fact apocrypha does not belong bible in the bible at all including the savior bit for jesus. A lot of the bible can be thrown out as well.
Same goes with scriptures since they all contradict one another. So take your Pick gensis 1 or genesis 2 which one sounds better to you.

Me: Why should I care if there is a god?

Christian: Worship Jesus or you'll go to hell.

Me: Wow, we jumped right from God to your God, huh.

Christian: Yes. Jesus loves you, but he will torture you if you don't do everything he says and care about him more than your own family and friends.

Me: Jesus sounds like a cunt to me.

Christian: No, he's pure goodness on a stick.

Me: If that's your idea of good, I'm hunkering down with Satan. You have failed to sell this to me. I will continue as before, caring about people I know are actually real, and I'll assume "gods" can look after their own feelings without crying about what I do. If they want me to do anything that doesn't involve being nice to people, they can fuck off anyway.