(June 7, 2016 at 11:34 am)Tiberius Wrote:

(June 7, 2016 at 11:19 am)Minimalist Wrote: The super delegates are democratic party officials and office holders who are automatically entitled to a vote at the convention.  The Bernie crowd has convinced itself that because they are not elected in a primary/caucus and thus not committed to any candidate that they will suddenly decide, en masse, to support a non-democrat ( Bernie is an Independent) over someone who has been busting her ass for the party for 30 years.  It's a delusion.  It always has been.

Oh Min.

So firstly, the Bernie crowd hasn't convinced itself of anything. What the Bernie crowd are saying is possible, because, well, it's how superdelegates work. Even the DNC state categorically that superdelegate votes shouldn't be counted in totals, because they aren't pledged to any candidate. The DNC themselves are well aware that superdelegates can change their minds, so naming a presumptive nominee based on counts that include superdelegates is dishonest.

Secondly, Bernie isn't an Independent. He's a democrat, he's running for the Democratic nomination, and he's stated that in future races he will run as a Democrat. Even when he was an Independent, he was a Democrat in all but name only, with the Democratic party supporting him against the Republican nominee.

Finally, your own words betray you Min. You would prefer to vote for someone who "has been busting her ass for the party for 30 years" than someone who has been busting their ass for the people for over 30 years. This is the terrible truth about party politics, and why Sanders has been an Independent for so long. When leaders are decided based on how loyal they have been to a party rather than how well they have served the people, you know you have a broken system.

Realistically, Clinton likely won't get enough pledged delegates to clinch the nomination before the convention. According to Google's count, she needs 571 out of the remaining 813 ( > 70%) to net the majority of pledged delegates and officially earn the nomination.

You please be sure to let me know when the Super Delegate Tsunami swings Bernie's way.

(June 7, 2016 at 11:48 am)Minimalist Wrote:

(June 7, 2016 at 11:34 am)Tiberius Wrote: Oh Min.

So firstly, the Bernie crowd hasn't convinced itself of anything. What the Bernie crowd are saying is possible, because, well, it's how superdelegates work. Even the DNC state categorically that superdelegate votes shouldn't be counted in totals, because they aren't pledged to any candidate. The DNC themselves are well aware that superdelegates can change their minds, so naming a presumptive nominee based on counts that include superdelegates is dishonest.

Secondly, Bernie isn't an Independent. He's a democrat, he's running for the Democratic nomination, and he's stated that in future races he will run as a Democrat. Even when he was an Independent, he was a Democrat in all but name only, with the Democratic party supporting him against the Republican nominee.

Finally, your own words betray you Min. You would prefer to vote for someone who "has been busting her ass for the party for 30 years" than someone who has been busting their ass for the people for over 30 years. This is the terrible truth about party politics, and why Sanders has been an Independent for so long. When leaders are decided based on how loyal they have been to a party rather than how well they have served the people, you know you have a broken system.

Realistically, Clinton likely won't get enough pledged delegates to clinch the nomination before the convention. According to Google's count, she needs 571 out of the remaining 813 ( > 70%) to net the majority of pledged delegates and officially earn the nomination.

You please be sure to let me know when the Super Delegate Tsunami swings Bernie's way.

They super delegates have no choice but to swing bernies way Hillary could win election but loose to trump when they run for president. 
Bernie has a better statistical chance to beat trump than hillary, bernie has a bigger lead over trump while hillary out right looses to trumps.
Even politico is even making this point she is making mistakes the delegates should really reaching out to Bernie and jumping ship soon once California comes
around. As much as i hate it i would prefer that Hillary wins over Trump but looking at it there is no way in hell for her to win.

(June 7, 2016 at 12:22 pm)dyresand Wrote:

(June 7, 2016 at 11:48 am)Minimalist Wrote: You please be sure to let me know when the Super Delegate Tsunami swings Bernie's way.

They super delegates have no choice but to swing bernies way Hillary could win election but loose to trump when they run for president. 
Bernie has a better statistical chance to beat trump than hillary, bernie has a bigger lead over trump while hillary out right looses to trumps.
Even politico is even making this point she is making mistakes the delegates should really reaching out to Bernie and jumping ship soon once California comes
around. As much as i hate it i would prefer that Hillary wins over Trump but looking at it there is no way in hell for her to win.

You are deluded. Not once in US history have the super delegates supported the candidate with the lower delegate count, from what I'm aware of.

Aside from that, Trump has the mother of all uphill battles in the general election. Barring a heart attack or some other freak occurrence, Hillary is going to be the next POTUS.
if I'm wrong, I will gladly buy you a beer amidst the nukes falling in the wake of a Trump victory: P

(June 7, 2016 at 12:47 pm)Iroscato Wrote:

(June 7, 2016 at 12:22 pm)dyresand Wrote: They super delegates have no choice but to swing bernies way Hillary could win election but loose to trump when they run for president. 
Bernie has a better statistical chance to beat trump than hillary, bernie has a bigger lead over trump while hillary out right looses to trumps.
Even politico is even making this point she is making mistakes the delegates should really reaching out to Bernie and jumping ship soon once California comes
around. As much as i hate it i would prefer that Hillary wins over Trump but looking at it there is no way in hell for her to win.

You are deluded. Not once in US history have the super delegates supported the candidate with the lower delegate count, from what I'm aware of.

Aside from that, Trump has the mother of all uphill battles in the general election. Barring a heart attack or some other freak occurrence, Hillary is going to be the next POTUS.
if I'm wrong, I will gladly buy you a beer amidst the nukes falling in the wake of a Trump victory: P

Not sure what the point of them is, then. At the very least, Hillary has been shown to be irresponsible at her job, and at most she's a criminal. Polls show Bernie having a bigger advantage over Trump than Hillary. He seems to be the more electable candidate, despite trailing by a small margin.

There's no good reason that Bernie shouldn't get the nomination, but since the government is so corrupt, we keep having to choose between two people we don't like.

(June 7, 2016 at 1:03 pm)Chad32 Wrote:

(June 7, 2016 at 12:47 pm)Iroscato Wrote: You are deluded. Not once in US history have the super delegates supported the candidate with the lower delegate count, from what I'm aware of.

Aside from that, Trump has the mother of all uphill battles in the general election. Barring a heart attack or some other freak occurrence, Hillary is going to be the next POTUS.
if I'm wrong, I will gladly buy you a beer amidst the nukes falling in the wake of a Trump victory: P

Not sure what the point of them is, then. At the very least, Hillary has been shown to be irresponsible at her job, and at most she's a criminal. Polls show Bernie having a bigger advantage over Trump than Hillary. He seems to be the more electable candidate, despite trailing by a small margin.

There's no good reason that Bernie shouldn't get the nomination, but since the government is so corrupt, we keep having to choose between two people we don't like.

Oh, same here - I think the entire US electoral system is fucked from head to toe. But this isn't going to be the year it all changes. Sanders, I think, came just a little before his time - but his (utterly respectable and commendable) ideology will survive him. After Clinton wins and walks the 2020 re-election (because unless the GOP undergoes a titanic shift in attitude in the next few years, they don't have a prayer of winning), then it may be time to lay the first foundations for real, systemic change.

(June 7, 2016 at 11:48 am)Minimalist Wrote: You please be sure to let me know when the Super Delegate Tsunami swings Bernie's way.

I'm sure you'll be aware of it if it happens. Don't get me wrong, I've said before that Clinton will likely be the nominee if things stand, however there's a difference between "likely nominee" and "actual nominee". For the Republicans it's a different story; they have no superdelegates so Trump is guaranteed the nomination on pledged delegates alone.

If this election has shown us anything though, it's that unlikely things can and sometimes will happen. Trump went from being a joke candidate to front-runner to presumptive nominee to edging within 4 points of Clinton in national polls. Clinton, as I think even you will admit, is a far from ideal candidate. She has numerous skeletons in her closet, is under investigation by the FBI, and has already flip-flopped on several issues.

Assuming the FBI investigation doesn't lead to an indictment, Clinton will likely become the Democratic nominee, and she'll have a decent chance against Trump. If the FBI do recommend indictment, that will be more ammo for Trump and the Republicans, and I predict Trump will win the election. In that scenario, I believe the best thing for the DNC would be to deny Clinton the nomination.

Chad32 Wrote:

Iroscato Wrote:You are deluded. Not once in US history have the super delegates supported the candidate with the lower delegate count, from what I'm aware of.

Aside from that, Trump has the mother of all uphill battles in the general election. Barring a heart attack or some other freak occurrence, Hillary is going to be the next POTUS.
if I'm wrong, I will gladly buy you a beer amidst the nukes falling in the wake of a Trump victory: P

Not sure what the point of them is, then. At the very least, Hillary has been shown to be irresponsible at her job, and at most she's a criminal. Polls show Bernie having a bigger advantage over Trump than Hillary. He seems to be the more electable candidate, despite trailing by a small margin.

There's no good reason that Bernie shouldn't get the nomination, but since the government is so corrupt, we keep having to choose between two people we don't like.

The point of them is to keep something like Trump happening to the Democrats.

(June 7, 2016 at 1:49 pm)Tiberius Wrote:

(June 7, 2016 at 11:48 am)Minimalist Wrote: You please be sure to let me know when the Super Delegate Tsunami swings Bernie's way.

I'm sure you'll be aware of it if it happens. Don't get me wrong, I've said before that Clinton will likely be the nominee if things stand, however there's a difference between "likely nominee" and "actual nominee". For the Republicans it's a different story; they have no superdelegates so Trump is guaranteed the nomination on pledged delegates alone.

If this election has shown us anything though, it's that unlikely things can and sometimes will happen. Trump went from being a joke candidate to front-runner to presumptive nominee to edging within 4 points of Clinton in national polls. Clinton, as I think even you will admit, is a far from ideal candidate. She has numerous skeletons in her closet, is under investigation by the FBI, and has already flip-flopped on several issues.

Assuming the FBI investigation doesn't lead to an indictment, Clinton will likely become the Democratic nominee, and she'll have a decent chance against Trump. If the FBI do recommend indictment, that will be more ammo for Trump and the Republicans, and I predict Trump will win the election. In that scenario, I believe the best thing for the DNC would be to deny Clinton the nomination.

Don't forget Bernie again if Hillary goes to jail Bernie again has a higher chance of beating Trump.

People keep bringing up the polls, but Bernie has yet to come under attack from Republicans. He's enjoyed an advantage of not having to defend some of the things he's said and done in the past. As soon as he does, you'll see him dip in the polls. It'd be fucking fantastic if Bernie could actually win. But if he can't beat Hillary in the primaries, I doubt he can beat Trump at the general election. People underestimate how much of a negative impact a label like "Socialist" can have in the election. Not just with Republicans, but moderates as well.

"Bernie will just focus on the issues!" his supporters say. And that's great for him. But Trump won't, and it'll play to the general electorate better than you can imagine.

Bernie's polling better. But that's just right now. As soon as he's had the full brunt of the Republican Attack Dogs, he's going to take a dip.

People saying "Super Delegates Should switch!" have to also consider how they'd fucking feel about it if Bernie was leading in Delegates, but the Super Delegates actually gave it to Hillary. I mean they've already complained about Super Delegates having an impact on voting (They really didn't). I can only imagine the shitstorm if Hillary had fewer regular delegates, but the Super Delegates put her over the top. Yet that's what they want to happen here.

I'd vote for Sanders in a heartbeat. But let's be real here for a minute. Him polling well now is meaningless. Especially when he's a relative unknown. He's yet to be the focus of the Republicans attacks. Once they're forced to focus on him, he won't do quite so well.

(June 7, 2016 at 12:47 pm)Iroscato Wrote:

(June 7, 2016 at 12:22 pm)dyresand Wrote: They super delegates have no choice but to swing bernies way Hillary could win election but loose to trump when they run for president. 
Bernie has a better statistical chance to beat trump than hillary, bernie has a bigger lead over trump while hillary out right looses to trumps.
Even politico is even making this point she is making mistakes the delegates should really reaching out to Bernie and jumping ship soon once California comes
around. As much as i hate it i would prefer that Hillary wins over Trump but looking at it there is no way in hell for her to win.

You are deluded. Not once in US history have the super delegates supported the candidate with the lower delegate count, from what I'm aware of.

Aside from that, Trump has the mother of all uphill battles in the general election. Barring a heart attack or some other freak occurrence, Hillary is going to be the next POTUS.
if I'm wrong, I will gladly buy you a beer amidst the nukes falling in the wake of a Trump victory: P

To put it into perspective would you knowingly vote for someone would has a high chance of going to federal prison??
That's the whole thing now. Even then would you vote for said person if they didn't have a long shot of beating trump either.
All i am really doing is stating the facts she could be nominee but she doesn't have the independent vote and she never will or at
least we would vote for the lesser of two evils in this case. She hasn't earned my vote that's all i'm saying she is the establishment 
and a liar if it came down to her and trump i would throw my vote her way i would rather have her in office than a guy who is clearly 
not trustworthy with nuclear weapons.